Jamarra Ugle-Hagan

[EasternWest]

Lets not forget Ameet Bains.

Or Happy Days.

[The bulldog tragician]

I've been surprised how recent articles have suggested what happens next is in our control, while all of the messaging out of the club was his situation including his return to training scheduling was being closely managed by the AFL. From what I could gather we provided the environment and the program, and the AFL determined whether he was permitted to participate due to the special nature of his absence.

The AFL having a big hand in what happens next worries me a bit, because time and again they've shown themselves to value PR, redemption stories, servicing the bigger clubs or just about anything rather than ensuring fairness.

Mid-season there was talk that the AFL would not allow him to just go to another club if he did not meet certain parameters. The impression was given, as you say Jeemak, and as I am pretty sure Bevo stated, that his situation was now being fully managed by the AFL. That implied to me that he was in effect in breach of contract but instead of us being able to take action on that basis, the AFL stepped in. It would be a cruel irony but completely on brand for AFL if he’s somehow again our responsibility and our situation is as though we’re dealing with just another disgruntled/underperforming player and have t take whatever dross we can get.

[Mofra]

Does anyone know if it is standard practice to have a clause in a contract that basically says *here’s heaps of money, but you don’t have to come to work ever*?

I know young people who are working and studying to improve themselves and their annual income is less than he is receiving for each game he does not appear for.

The club should refuse to pay him and try to recover what he has been paid recently.

We tried, but the AFL intervened.

[angelopetraglia]

Tom Morris

The Gold Coast Suns are doing their due diligence on Jamarra Ugle-Hagan. They haven’t met him yet, and still quite a few hoops to jump through. But they haven’t ruled out bringing him in via a trade. The Dogs wouldn’t play hard ball if it got to that.

[azabob]

Tom Morris

The Gold Coast Suns are doing their due diligence on Jamarra Ugle-Hagan. They haven’t met him yet, and still quite a few hoops to jump through. But they haven’t ruled out bringing him in via a trade. The Dogs wouldn’t play hard ball if it got to that.

I can live with JUH going to GCS if they take his entire salary.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'm just done with all of this.
Dunkley
Smith
JUH

I know is super simplistic to put a rope around them all and say its all the same thing.. but at a high level it is all the same thing.
That's 2 very highly touted players - who chose to leave our club and hold us over a barrel and both will be playing off in a GF this year.. and we got sweet FA for them.
And now JUH is going, and some are talking about potentially giving up Sanders and more to lure Wilkie!

We are doormats. I'm not saying it's all our fault.. but I am saying we are doormats..and we will always be doormats that other clubs trample over unless we start flying the flag.
It makes me sick to my stomach that Dunkley and Smith have significantly improved their respective sides..whilst we sit on the fringes of the 8, just treading water.
And the one piece of luck that had fallen our way despite the baked in advantages the big club had, was our previous generation of Doggies players have produced a disproportionately high amount of top father/son recruits than other clubs. And of course the drums are beating now that they'll reign the Father/son rules in and we'll be denied that avenue.

I don't know what the answer is.. but I want to know my club is p1ssed at all of this.. And I do think the onus is on the club to explain to members why this isn't our fault. (I think a fair amount of it is)

How the heck we let Dunkley get out of contract when he'd wanted to leave the year prior for Essendon????! That is on us.
And Smith- man you could see that coming a mile away too.- We were unlucky he did his knee though.

JUH- yeah maybe not our fault - but wow it's gone from AFL is managing to all of a sudden 'we're keen to just get him off our books' this trade period.. another fire sale.. of epic proportions coming.

I'm fast running out of patience with the club to make a bloody stand, or at least speak to members about the inequity of how we are treated.. or are we too afraid of p1ssing off AFL house?

[azabob]

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot IMO the reality is Dunkley wanted the club to take a stand with players behavior off-field and on field. It seems we have finally learnt that lesson, albeit too late to keep Dunkley.

Posters can say Dunkley wanted to be the highest paid player and the number one player at the club. I find that a hard pill to swallow as he left us to go to Brisbane and is playing the exact same role as, he did for us, and I hazard a guess on the same coin also.

The other aspect is as a club we are not resourced enough to handle complex characters such as Bailey Smith.

To succeed we need to be the best at identifying talent, identifying the right personality and developing that talent. That is where we should be spending huge chunks of the soft cap.

[ledge]

We were right to let Smith go he has already shown problems at Geelong 3 or 4 times , their is only so many times you can cause problems then it all goes pare shaped .
He is a problem at Geelong too .
Dunkley wanted out for the right reasons and eventually those reasons were fixed but too late .
JUH has fallen off a cliff due to him not us .
if you agree with the reasons Dunkley left but are upset with JUH going your contradicting yourself . It’s more we don’t want JUH than him wanting out .
2 good players who aren’t good for team cohesion gone so it’s sad but I accept it .
Dunkley being the player I would value as a loss .
And if you want to count stringer that has been shown he wasn’t the player he could have been when he left .

[Sedat]

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot IMO the reality is Dunkley wanted the club to take a stand with players behavior off-field and on field. It seems we have finally learnt that lesson, albeit too late to keep Dunkley.

Posters can say Dunkley wanted to be the highest paid player and the number one player at the club. I find that a hard pill to swallow as he left us to go to Brisbane and is playing the exact same role as, he did for us, and I hazard a guess on the same coin also.

The other aspect is as a club we have a tortilla company as a major sponsor and not a fast fashion clothing label where we can money-launder large chunks of the salary cap to handle complex characters such as Bailey Smith.

To succeed we need to be the best at identifying talent, identifying the right personality and developing that talent. That is where we should be spending huge chunks of the soft cap.

Edited for accuracy (otherwise agree with everything else you've said Aza).

As an aside, it's so heartening to see that JUH's next move might be to a location not at all synonymous with seedy night club strips and nefarious colourful identity gangster types.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We were right to let Smith go he has already shown problems at Geelong 3 or 4 times , their is only so many times you can cause problems then it all goes pare shaped .
He is a problem at Geelong too .
Dunkley wanted out for the right reasons and eventually those reasons were fixed but too late .
JUH has fallen off a cliff due to him not us .
if you agree with the reasons Dunkley left but are upset with JUH going your contradicting yourself . It’s more we don’t want JUH than him wanting out .
2 good players who aren’t good for team cohesion gone so it’s sad but I accept it .
Dunkley being the player I would value as a loss .
And if you want to count stringer that has been shown he wasn’t the player he could have been when he left .

All hindsight now, but if that's the case with JUH and Smith; well we clearly have some work to do understand the personality types we might be best off avoiding at the draft. I hope it wasn't a case we were seduced by his talent profile that we chose to overlook or minimise any character risks as things 'we can train out of him' or 'he'll grow out of'
Crows could've been sitting with the JUH timebomb instead if we had've called their bluff.

[Bornadog]

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot IMO the reality is Dunkley wanted the club to take a stand with players behavior off-field and on field. It seems we have finally learnt that lesson, albeit too late to keep Dunkley.

Posters can say Dunkley wanted to be the highest paid player and the number one player at the club. I find that a hard pill to swallow as he left us to go to Brisbane and is playing the exact same role as, he did for us, and I hazard a guess on the same coin also.

The other aspect is as a club we are not resourced enough to handle complex characters such as Bailey Smith.

To succeed we need to be the best at identifying talent, identifying the right personality and developing that talent. That is where we should be spending huge chunks of the soft cap.

I will say Dunkley wanted more money and you can disagree.

He was jealous of Adz who had been on $900k per year, he was Jealous of the Bont and his large contract and he wanted to be number one. Yes he did have an issue with Lachie Hunter and his behaviour, but I don't know who else in the club? - unless you can name them. Why one person would want to make you leave is immature - every organisation has a dickhead and you can't just get up and go every time. You have to learn to deal with it, and my bet is, he didn't know how to. Just a poor excuse to give to the public and hide his want for more money. Nothing wrong with wanting a higher salary - just admit it and don't make excuseses for why you left. We had a pretty good team in 2021 and if there were major internal issues, it wouldn't have happened.

Maybe we made a mistake by not giving him a huge increase, because as it turns out, the salary cap is much higher and $1 million payments is becoming the norm.
Yes he is a good player, but certainly we are not desperate for him - We have other needs.

Smith is another one with a poor personality and didn't like the discipline he was given. He has since made comments about how Geelong let him be himself, and he has shown what a complete dickhead he is. You get away with that at Geelong.

As for JUH - really can't blame the club on that one. The club has tried everything but he doesn't want to help himself.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yeah I've gotta say, I am growing tired of the myriad of excuses for why quality players are leaving us every year.

You don't see the best clubs routinely losing players of quality like we seemingly do. Rather, they add to their group. We seem to be always in a state of panic to find 'replacements'.

Each individual case of Dunkley, Smith, JUH, Hunter, Daniel, and Macrae can be picked apart. Maybe Macrae was surplus to needs, maybe Daniel wasn't the player he once was, maybe Hunter needed a change, Smith is a dickhead, Dunkley watched too much American sports .... but there's always something. Something about why players are leaving, and we know our struggles of attracting talent the other way.

I'm not sure if anyone is to wholeheartedly blame, but it's a whole of club problem.

[Sedat]

Maybe we made a mistake by not giving him a huge increase, because as it turns out, the salary cap is much higher and $1 million payments is becoming the norm.
Yes he is a good player, but certainly we are not desperate for him - We have other needs.

There has been a gaping hole on our list for a big-bodied defensively-minded mid for years. We had the future best player in the competition in this specific role (honourable exception to Tom Atkins, who is also a stud in this role) and he left our club while in his absolute prime. The only negative on him is that he was also party to our utter midfield clearance and stoppage disaster in the 2021 GF.

As much as I admire both Harmes and Kennedy, they are both Temu Dunkley - we still have a glaring hole in this area (as witnessed by our inept stoppage/clearance work in Q2 of our last match).

Dunkley is so much more than a 'good' player - he is the best player in the entire competition at his specific (and highly underrated/critically important) role.

[Grantysghost]

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot IMO the reality is Dunkley wanted the club to take a stand with players behavior off-field and on field. It seems we have finally learnt that lesson, albeit too late to keep Dunkley.

Posters can say Dunkley wanted to be the highest paid player and the number one player at the club. I find that a hard pill to swallow as he left us to go to Brisbane and is playing the exact same role as, he did for us, and I hazard a guess on the same coin also.

The other aspect is as a club we are not resourced enough to handle complex characters such as Bailey Smith.

To succeed we need to be the best at identifying talent, identifying the right personality and developing that talent. That is where we should be spending huge chunks of the soft cap.

And the rumours were they were all sharing car keys early last year.

Dunks just wants what's best for brand Dunks. That's it. We weren't Hollywood enough.
He's right. 3 GFS in a row.

[Sedat]

Yeah I've gotta say, I am growing tired of the myriad of excuses for why quality players are leaving us every year.

You don't see the best clubs routinely losing players of quality like we seemingly do. Rather, they add to their group. We seem to be always in a state of panic to find 'replacements'.

Each individual case of Dunkley, Smith, JUH, Hunter, Daniel, and Macrae can be picked apart. Maybe Macrae was surplus to needs, maybe Daniel wasn't the player he once was, maybe Hunter needed a change, Smith is a dickhead, Dunkley watched too much American sports .... but there's always something. Something about why players are leaving, and we know our struggles of attracting talent the other way.

I'm not sure if anyone is to wholeheartedly blame, but it's a whole of club problem.

Outside of JUH, it's really only Dunkley and Smith.

Dunkley was ultimately a failure on our part, and Smith is a total dickhead (albeit an extremely talented one) who is getting a tonne of money under the table with Cotton On. The Smith/Geelong 'love' affair is gong to end in tears one day - the entire footy industry knows this. And the JUH issue simply could not have been handled any better by us this year (we obviously hit the wrong note selecting him to play in the EF last year).

Hunter, Macrae and Daniel - you do those deals every day of the week and twice on Sundays. They are all Bullgods, but we sold while they were descending in output (and for more than reasonable compensation, either through salary cap relief (and also an excellent draft pick in Daniel's case).

We're not the only ones. All clubs lose big name players. Collingwood lost Treloar and Grundy in one hit and are remarkably still paying their salaries in 2025. GWS and Gold Coast are raided every year. Even Geelong had Kelly trying to get out of the joint 2 years in a row (hats off to them for basically turning this into Jeremy Cameron). Richmond lost a huge hit of talent 12 months ago. Brisbane famously lost a bunch 10 years ago before fixing up their backyard and becoming a destination club. I don't think we are significantly more affected than most - maybe we just overrate some of our players, and when they leave we catastrophise a bit too much.