Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

[mjp]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

Yesterday our best forwards were the umpires. I think they had 3 of our first 4 goals.

Well...the stats will say that but the first goal (Bruce) was in the run of play after a free kick had been paid. I think he should have stopped/given the ball back to ( I think) Wallis but our players have done this all year. Play-on-advantage inside scoring distance but OUTSIDE the goal square is just selfish, me first footy.

We aren’t a super disciplined side.

[GVGjr]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

Well...the stats will say that but the first goal (Bruce) was in the run of play after a free kick had been paid. I think he should have stopped/given the ball back to ( I think) Wallis but our players have done this all year. Play-on-advantage inside scoring distance but OUTSIDE the goal square is just selfish, me first footy.

We aren’t a super disciplined side.

That would have halved Bruce's total kicks of the footy for the day

[mjp]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

That would have halved Bruce's total kicks of the footy for the day

Kicks aside, he was poor. Couldn’t stick a tackle. Couldn’t prevent st Kilda taking marks in f50...Having lived the JB experience for 17 games now I honestly wonder what we saw in him in the first place. I admit to liking him as an option during 2019 but didn’t really watch that much of the Saints last year...

Basically, I don’t get it.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

That would have halved Bruce's total kicks of the footy for the day

Anyone else feel embarrassed at his “pulling the jumper” gesture? When you’re at your third club it feels a bit empty. It was certainly premature!

As for what I learnt:

2016 is a long long way back in the rear vision mirror and this team does not have the same hunger that group collectively had - it doesn’t just happen again automatically and yet we still heard a lot about whether we could win again from 7th...

I still don’t know if I want Naughton to be a forward or a defender ... mainly I just badly want him to be uninjured!

More than what I learnt, I’d love to hear what Bevo has learnt. I’m not at all clear on the vision or strategy that we’re following...not criticising...I just get very mixed messages about the side that he’s trying to mould and the selection and recruitment decisions he’s made over the past couple of years

[GVGjr]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

Kicks aside, he was poor. Couldn’t stick a tackle. Couldn’t prevent st Kilda taking marks in f50...Having lived the JB experience for 17 games now I honestly wonder what we saw in him in the first place. I admit to liking him as an option during 2019 but didn’t really watch that much of the Saints last year...

Basically, I don’t get it.

I know players can go through poor patches but the real concern is why we just picking him outside of the one missed game with injury.

14 goals from 17 games is reasonable but 6 of them came in one game. His kicking for goal was generally woeful. His relief ruck work is poor as well.
He's got some work to do next season to repay the faith we placed in him and to go close to earning his pay

[SonofScray]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

More than what I learnt, I’d love to hear what Bevo has learnt. I’m not at all clear on the vision or strategy that we’re following...not criticising...I just get very mixed messages about the side that he’s trying to mould and the selection and recruitment decisions he’s made over the past couple of years

Not much I fear. We've wasted so much time since the flag saying one thing over summer and then not implementing it come the season. He's presented himself better recently & seemed to have figured out what he wanted last year after a dismal start, but it seems like he wiped it all again, for a similar outcome, with less reward.

It's all in the margins, a finals win I thought would be par and restore some confidence I had in him. He was 3 points away. My belief in him and his tenure is back where it was at the start of the season. Uncertain. Only marginally better than where it was prior to the halfway mark last year, which was rock bottom.

[Bornadog]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

Kicks aside, he was poor. Couldn’t stick a tackle. Couldn’t prevent st Kilda taking marks in f50...Having lived the JB experience for 17 games now I honestly wonder what we saw in him in the first place. I admit to liking him as an option during 2019 but didn’t really watch that much of the Saints last year...

Basically, I don’t get it.

Last year kicked 35 plus goals and 5th in AFL total contested marks.

He has had a poor season, and hopefully he works on it over the summer and we see what happens next year.

[Happy Days]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

Of all the issues I had with yesterday's performance Bruce's total inability to get to any contests to halve them, which from what I can tell is his entire role in the side, was the most frustrating.

His effort at what ended up being the final live moment of the match was pitiful. If he can't find a way to get back those ten or so yards of pace he lost then he won't be able to split any packs, he won't be able to get any separation to be hit up, and he will continue to be totally useless.

[Sedat]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

Kicks aside, he was poor. Couldn’t stick a tackle. Couldn’t prevent st Kilda taking marks in f50...Having lived the JB experience for 17 games now I honestly wonder what we saw in him in the first place. I admit to liking him as an option during 2019 but didn’t really watch that much of the Saints last year...

Basically, I don’t get it.

Being the sucker for punishment, I decide to watch a replay of the last qtr today. When there is a marking contest there is absolutely no thought given by Bruce to shepherd or to legally stop the run of his direct opponent and allow Naughts a proper run and jump at it. There is absolutely no chemistry or synergy between the 2 players like there is with other key forward duos.

The pivotal 2 marking contests at F50 in the last 90 seconds were damning. First up Membury takes an uncontested mark because Bruce was running backwards and not even looking at the ball, and as a result he and his opponent got directly in the way of Naughton to run and leap and kill the contest/mark it. Crozier was on Membury and could have gone up but he reasonably thought there was enough firepower with Bruce and Naughts to contest against Membury, so he went front and centre. After the Membury mark, we somehow win the ball back again 20 seconds later (great manning up and structure behind the ball to stop them icing the clock) and have another chance with Duryea kicking into F50, set up by Daniel handball. This time Crozier decides to go for the mark because he doesn't trust Bruce after the previous botched contest. Unfortunately Bruce directly spoils Crozier and then half a second later gives away the lazy free for too high. In both those marking contests we had good cover in the air and good cover at ground level to pick up the spoils.

On evidence of this year Bruce has a very low football IQ. Getting to as many contests as possible doesn't mean fly for absolutely everything. There is a massive disconnect between our key forwards or there is very poor coaching and instructions given to the key forwards to fly for everything.

Oh, and Ryder was just as massive in the replay as he was live. He won almost every stoppage and gave them a silver platter with easy ball - he set up their only goal and also the Billings point which he should have kicked. He also won contested marks as the outlet on the wing - he got them really important field position whenever we threatened. Also Caleb and Williams were outstanding in that last qtr, Williams in D50 with his rebounding and Caleb as the architect in the middle.

[Danjul]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

Last he kicked 35 plus goals and 5th in AFL total contested marks.

He has had a poor season, and hopefully he works on it over the summer and we see what happens next year.

It is incomprehensible that he has been selected every game based upon his output. 5 goals from 14 games. Take out the game where Schache looked after him and you have nothing.

But the real tragedy for the supporters is they are not surprised.

[comrade]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

Being the sucker for punishment, I decide to watch a replay of the last qtr today. When there is a marking contest there is absolutely no thought given by Bruce to shepherd or to legally stop the run of his direct opponent and allow Naughts a proper run and jump at it. There is absolutely no chemistry or synergy between the 2 players like there is with other key forward duos.

The pivotal 2 marking contests at F50 in the last 90 seconds were damning. First up Membury takes an uncontested mark because Bruce was running backwards and not even looking at the ball, and as a result he and his opponent got directly in the way of Naughton to run and leap and kill the contest/mark it. Crozier was on Membury and could have gone up but he reasonably thought there was enough firepower with Bruce and Naughts to contest against Membury. We somehow win the ball back again 20 seconds later (great manning up and structure behind the ball to stop them icing the clock) and have another chance with Duryea kicking into F50. This time Crozier decides to go for the mark because he doesn't trust Bruce after the previous botched contest. Unfortunately Bruce directly spoils Crozier and then half a second later gives away the lazy free for too high. In both those marking contests we had good cover in the air and good cover at ground level to pick up the spoils.

On evidence of this year Bruce has a very low football IQ. Getting to as many contests as possible doesn't mean fly for absolutely everything. There is a massive disconnect between our key forwards or there is very poor coaching and instructions given to the key forwards to fly for everything.

Oh, and Ryder was just massive in the replay as he was live. He won almost every stoppage and gave them a silver platter with easy ball - he set up their only goal and also the Billings point which he should have kicked. He also won contested marks as the outlet on the wing - he got them really important field position whenever we threatened. Also Caleb and Williams were outstanding in that last qtr, Williams in D50 with his rebounding and Caleb as the architect in the middle.

Nice recap, Sedat.

The small gains Bruce had won over the past few weeks have been completely wiped by his performance yesterday. He needs a massive pre-season but to be honest, given we played him in spite of his horrendous form following his one good game v North, is the incentive really there for him to transform himself?

[Sedat]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

Nice recap, Sedat.

The small gains Bruce had won over the past few weeks have been completely wiped by his performance yesterday. He needs a massive pre-season but to be honest, given we played him in spite of his horrendous form following his one good game v North, is the incentive really there for him to transform himself?

I forgot to mention that both Wally and Richards were front and center in that last contest where Crozier was spoiled by Bruce. The Saints defenders were aiming to spoil forward where Richards was but Bruce got there first and knocked it to the feet of the pack, where of course there was heavy congestion. Cue the free kick and game over.

[Bornadog]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

Being the sucker for punishment, I decide to watch a replay of the last qtr today. .

I agree with everything you said about Bruce - it is a worry. If you go back to my posts from earlier in the year, I really questioned why we needed to recruit him. It wasn't a need for us.

I mentioned this in the game day thread, I don't like the way Naughton plays FF at all. He is always at the back of the pack or on the side surrounded by opposition and not leading anywhere to open up the forward line and give a target for the mids. Naughton has alot to learn in his craft, remembering he has never really played forward in his junior days and he is only 20 years old - 6 months older than the King Bros.

I think we need to look at a new forwards coach because Hansen is too old style, has had his chance and we need fresh eyes, someone more recent out of the game.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

I agree with everything you said about Bruce - it is a worry. If you go back to my posts from earlier in the year, I really questioned why we needed to recruit him. It wasn't a need for us.

I mentioned this in the game day thread, I don't like the way Naughton plays FF at all. He is always at the back of the pack or on the side surrounded by opposition and not leading anywhere to open up the forward line and give a target for the mids. Naughton has alot to learn in his craft, remembering he has never really played forward in his junior days and he is only 20 years old - 6 months older than the King Bros.

I think we need to look at a new forwards coach because Hansen is too old style, has had his chance and we need fresh eyes, someone more recent out of the game.

I feel Naughton led a lot more last year, it was something I liked about his game, he kept presenting. Based on Sedat’s great recap his trickiest opponent has usually been the bloke wearing number 7 for us.

I wonder how many times this year we got the scenarios that other teams get against us...where the ball speeds into a really open forward line with so much space that a goal is inevitable. Even when we win our goals are often hard work, I can barely remember a player being able to do a leisurely stroll into goal. I’d love to see us able to get Naughton one on one more frequently, he is such a superb mark, but he is usually in the midst of congestion...so MUCH congestion.

[Sedat]

Re: Three things you have learned. *ELIMINATION FINAL* 2020 v St Kilda.

I feel Naughton led a lot more last year, it was something I liked about his game, he kept presenting. Based on Sedat’s great recap his trickiest opponent has usually been the bloke wearing number 7 for us.

I wonder how many times this year we got the scenarios that other teams get against us...where the ball speeds into a really open forward line with so much space that a goal is inevitable. Even when we win our goals are often hard work, I can barely remember a player being able to do a leisurely stroll into goal. I’d love to see us able to get Naughton one on one more frequently, he is such a superb mark, but he is usually in the midst of congestion...so MUCH congestion.

Just on Naughton, he took 2 monster pack marks in the last qtr and in both of them he had to compete against his direct opponent and also Bruce and his direct opponent. Their chemistry is a clear problem.

The one game where Naughton got a lot of space and clean delivery was against Adelaide when he kicked a big bag and Bruce didn't play. Granted Adelaide were hopeless at the time but he still had to do it against Daniel Talia who is no mug (unlike his brother)