Honest reflection and the path forward

[G-Mo77]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Ah I missed the sarcasm!

It does reek of jobs for the boys doesn't it. I guess people have to start somewhere but id hope he's at least got his accreditation.

Edit: Doesn't appear to have his levels, it's mainly business training and sports operations.

Yeah, there is absolutely nothing in terms of coaching on his CV. He spent time at Collingwood but that was Engagement and Operations. Bevo complains about the soft cap and yeah, it's a fair argument, when this is our best choice that argument breaks down and you have to wonder; Could the money be spent on someone else? How much time did we use to vet the assistant applicants? Money would be tight but there would be loads of new coaches out there who have already spent time at lower levels with new, fresh ideas. People blame Bevo for choosing this guy, his mate, but who signed off on it? Grant? Bains? They should wear just as much blame. It's diabolical that Spangher was chosen for a senior assistants role at a club that just made the GF.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I actually believe the problem is the game plan and that is down to Bevo.

Don't blame the forward coach when the game plan has everyone in the forward 50 so that we keep it there and don't score.

Don't blame the defensive coach when the eventual turnover slingshots it into an open opposition forward line, because all of our defenders had been pressing up to lock into the F50.

This game plan has had some success but it is so intensive and tiring. It requires Naughton to take pack marks because there is no space. It also prevents players who could perhaps perform with space (Josh Schache perhaps) from having any meaningful development.

It also affords space continually on turnover and results in our backline giving up more scores once the opposition get inside 50.

The list is good enough. The GAME PLAN is not.

[Danjul]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I actually believe the problem is the game plan and that is down to Bevo.

This game plan has had some success but it is so intensive and tiring. It requires Naughton to take pack marks because there is no space. It also prevents players who could perhaps perform with space (Josh Schache perhaps) from having any meaningful development.

It also affords space continually on turnover and results in our backline giving up more scores once the opposition get inside 50.

The list is good enough. The GAME PLAN is not.

This is a good observation and relevant to our riches to rags season.

Going into Friday’s game Cameron had taken 9 contested marks. For over 30 goals. We saw Geelong repeatedly kicking to his advantage and making him a match winner.

He doesn’t get bashed around by the opposition and his teammates. Doesn’t seem to have any ruck role.

Just calm business like common sense about how to win. Hawkins backing up with another couple, game over.

[Sedat]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I actually started to look ahead and was thinking, maybe? Last night kind of squashed that. I really can't see us getting enough W's from here on out to make the 8 and if we do manage to squeeze in I doubt we'll get through anyone in there.

We really need to review the coaching staff, match committee and any other game day tactician before 2023. Sitting on our hands is not an option IMO.

We need to review our midfield, too many of the same type. not enough grunt. Libba is our MVP in there, he was the reason the team started working their way back. His will and effort is elite, Macrae is a similar mold but outside of that when the chips are down the rest seem to be down and don't lift. I guess this comes under leadership as well?

Forward half is a debacle, selections can help here in some way but it's not going to stop having so many in the forward 50 and not getting a clear run at the ball. Our game plan is get it in there in anyway possible, keep it there and squeeze a goal out of it. How many times have we seen Naughton leading for the ball and someone gets in his way? Who ever is the coach of the forward half, I think it's the work experience kid, needs to be terminated at the end of this season.

We're still in this so we need to fight this out but at the same time we need to put some work into some younger players, Marra, Cleary, Sweet, Jones I'd really like to see play many times. I'd also like to give Shache a chance again and see if he's worth persisting with beyond 2022. It's not all doom and gloom but it's really hard not to be disappointed.

We need to hold Bevo's words and the club's expectations to account. After the EF loss in 2020 Bevo put it on record that the club was impatient with not contending and expected to be a contender for a sustained period of time to come. We fulfilled that end of the bargain last year - big tick. So really nothing less than a PF berth in 2022 is a failure based of the club's own expectations. It's that simple. Anything else is semantics and deeply misleading if we try to shift away from that narrative publicly.

Whatever the decisions around weekly selection, coaching, list management, recruiting and drafting since then, it is irrelevent. We need to be top 4 and likely in a GF in 2022 based on our own internal expectations. The club better get cracking this season.

[jeemak]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I'm not sure it'd end well telling a coach who has won a premiership, made another grand final, and three other finals series that he needs a senior mentor after seven seasons.

Pretty sure he'd tell the club to *!*!*!*! off and quit.

[Bornadog]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

You get the sense that unless Grant employs one it won't happen.

We had this same discussion in 2017 about guys like Hansen, King etc and they turned out to be pretty good.

[jeemak]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I did a comparison on coaching records to this point between Bevo and Clarkson (After a full seven seasons).

Average winning percentage - Bevo 56.77% to Clarkson 53.00%

Premierships - Bevo 1 to Clarkson 1

Finals series - Bevo 5 to Clarkson 4

Grand finals (lost) - Bevo 1 to Clarkson 0

Preliminary finals (lost) - Bevo 0 to Clarkson 1

Semi finals (lost) - Bevo 0 to Clarkson 1

Qualifying finals (lost) - Bevo 3 to Clarkson 0

Now it's this point in time where you have to say the recruiting at the Hawks was much better than what we have seen because they go on to put an amazingly strong 22-28 player contingent that was well structured and it took them to a Grand final, and then three flags in a row which is just amazing from that club.

I can't see us making a grand final this year, and I can't see us winning three flags in the coming three years unless we get some more talent in and balance out the side. Seriously though, we should be focusing on that and leave the coaching to Bevo with some more support from talented and credentialed assistants.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I did a comparison on coaching records to this point between Bevo and Clarkson (After a full seven seasons).

Average winning percentage - Bevo 56.77% to Clarkson 53.00%

Premierships - Bevo 1 to Clarkson 1

Finals series - Bevo 5 to Clarkson 4

Grand finals - Bevo 2 to Clarkson 0

Preliminary finals - Bevo 0 to Clarkson 1

Semi finals - Bevo 0 to Clarkson 1

Qualifying finals - Bevo 3 to Clarkson 0

Now it's this point in time where you have to say the recruiting at the Hawks was much better than what we have seen because they go on to put an amazingly strong 22-28 player contingent that was well structured and it took them to a Grand final, and then three flags in a row which is just amazing from that club.

I can't see us making a grand final this year, and I can't see us winning three flags in the coming three years unless we get some more talent in and balance out the side. Seriously though, we should be focusing on that and leave the coaching to Bevo with some more support from talented and credentialed assistants.

But can Bevo win a flag from 0 Grand Finals that's some coaching

[jeemak]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

But can Bevo win a flag from 0 Grand Finals that's some coaching

I've tried to make it a bit clearer!

[Bornadog]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I did a comparison on coaching records to this point between Bevo and Clarkson (After a full seven seasons).

Average winning percentage - Bevo 56.77% to Clarkson 53.00%

Premierships - Bevo 1 to Clarkson 1

Finals series - Bevo 5 to Clarkson 4

Grand finals (lost) - Bevo 1 to Clarkson 0

Preliminary finals (lost) - Bevo 0 to Clarkson 1

Semi finals (lost) - Bevo 0 to Clarkson 1

Qualifying finals (lost) - Bevo 3 to Clarkson 0

Now it's this point in time where you have to say the recruiting at the Hawks was much better than what we have seen because they go on to put an amazingly strong 22-28 player contingent that was well structured and it took them to a Grand final, and then three flags in a row which is just amazing from that club.

I can't see us making a grand final this year, and I can't see us winning three flags in the coming three years unless we get some more talent in and balance out the side. Seriously though, we should be focusing on that and leave the coaching to Bevo with some more support from talented and credentialed assistants.

Great stuff Jee.

Hawks did get a lot of first rounders in those early years and were able to build a strong team, but brilliant comparison.

I really don't understand why supporters turn on the coach when we lose.

Like you have said in other posts, the players need to take some responsibility for their actions.

On top of that we lack a quality tall backman. I am a little disappointed in Keath, but I think his injuries are taking their toll. He is not moving like he use to. We also really miss Bruce to help Naughton, and it is a pity Schache hasn't worked out like we needed him to.

I am looking forward to seeing a few quality players back in the second half and they will make a big difference, ie Bruce, McLean, JJ and Hunter.

[Sedat]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I can't see us making a grand final this year, and I can't see us winning three flags in the coming three years unless we get some more talent in and balance out the side. Seriously though, we should be focusing on that and leave the coaching to Bevo with some more support from talented and credentialed assistants.

Bevo and the club could. They set the benchmark of long-term contending and they need to live their words and expectations. If we don't, we need a serious top-down examination of our entire operation.

It's all on Bevo, the match committee and the players. Time to get it done. No excuses whatsoever.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Great stuff Jee.

Hawks did get a lot of first rounders in those early years and were able to build a strong team, but brilliant comparison.

I really don't understand why supporters turn on the coach when we lose.

Like you have said in other posts, the players need to take some responsibility for their actions.

On top of that we lack a quality tall backman. I am a little disappointed in Keath, but I think his injuries are taking their toll. He is not moving like he use to. We also really miss Bruce to help Naughton, and it is a pity Schache hasn't worked out like we needed him to.

I am looking forward to seeing a few quality players back in the second half and they will make a big difference, ie Bruce, McLean, JJ and Hunter.

Wait, you love all the players xD

Can't be their fault.

[jeemak]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Bevo and the club could. They set the benchmark of long-term contending and they need to live their words and expectations. If we don't, we need a serious top-down examination of our entire operation.

It's all on Bevo, the match committee and the players. Time to get it done. No excuses whatsoever.

I could at the start of the year, but at six and six I can't. Happy to be surprised, but can't see it happening.

Should we not then I don't want any arm flapping, histrionics, or carry on. Rather, a sober assessment of the reasons why we didn't achieve what we aimed to and some steps to rectify any issues identified.

[Bornadog]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Wait, you love all the players xD

Can't be their fault.

What are you talking about?

[Grantysghost]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

What are you talking about?

If you find out let me know.