Sharp Axes

[Grantysghost]

Re: Sharp Axes

I don't mind any of that but I'm pretty sure we offered Lipinski a contract -he didn't want it because he looked at the magnets on the midfield white board and said "I'm probably not tipping out any of them"...and off he went to Collingwood. Hunter issues were personal, Dunks left for cash....

Lobb was a bad idea from the get go and many on here have been consistent with that...me amongst them. As the coach said in the club, "I'm not against buying players - it's just that you're buying the wrong ones"...

I don't know what to tell you - the fish rots from the head and all but one minute it's Bevo's coaching and not getting enough out of a list and the next it's "the list management is bad and that's the reason"...it just isn't that simple.

We lack developing mids. Many of us have been saying that but an equal number of those seem happy with Khamis in year 4-5 on the list as a developing 'something' etc etc. The list goes on...as supporters we don't want to delist these developing kids (Rhylee West anyone) even though all evidence is they aren't QUITE good enough. I'm rambling now but I really just don't understand what everyone wants the coach to do.

I guess I'm a Bevo defender/apologist - I don't mean to be. But we're playing pretty well right now and could/should be winning. Sure, criticise the JOD selections (seems crazy to me as well) but it's not like there's a lot else so why wouldn't we have a good look at him and see what might be what?

I feel like with Lippa, surely we could have sold a vision that was palatable? High forwards are basically mids in our side I mean West was playing it this week, McComb last year... He's better than both of those.

None of us know the story clearly however I'd hope we'd have tried bloody hard to keep him, I don't really buy the no spot for him thing.

Treloar was probably the straw.

We just took Poulter ffs! Different I know, but.... I want quality on the list.

I'm doing the broken record thing so I'll shut up

[Bullies]

Re: Sharp Axes

I don't mind any of that but I'm pretty sure we offered Lipinski a contract -he didn't want it because he looked at the magnets on the midfield white board and said "I'm probably not tipping out any of them"...and off he went to Collingwood. Hunter issues were personal, Dunks left for cash....

Lobb was a bad idea from the get go and many on here have been consistent with that...me amongst them. As the coach said in the club, "I'm not against buying players - it's just that you're buying the wrong ones"...

I don't know what to tell you - the fish rots from the head and all but one minute it's Bevo's coaching and not getting enough out of a list and the next it's "the list management is bad and that's the reason"...it just isn't that simple.

We lack developing mids. Many of us have been saying that but an equal number of those seem happy with Khamis in year 4-5 on the list as a developing 'something' etc etc. The list goes on...as supporters we don't want to delist these developing kids (Rhylee West anyone) even though all evidence is they aren't QUITE good enough. I'm rambling now but I really just don't understand what everyone wants the coach to do.

I guess I'm a Bevo defender/apologist - I don't mean to be. But we're playing pretty well right now and could/should be winning. Sure, criticise the JOD selections (seems crazy to me as well) but it's not like there's a lot else so why wouldn't we have a good look at him and see what might be what?

I think we also need to remember we are not a club who is going to attract the A Graders. Treloar fell into our arms but we are much like the Saints/North who have to pay the "shit club" tax on B Grade players ie: Lobb. and pay overs. It is why we are so lucky that we have done well with the draft and usually nail it with our early picks.

We therefore have to take a punt on the guys like Lobb/Bruce/Crozier/Keath in the hope they suit our needs. All those guys were $500k plus.

[josie]

Re: Sharp Axes

I’m not convinced Lobb is a bust yet. If we start honouring some of his leads when he is within our F50 he could be ok. I also think he is a clever tap ruck. Would I like home to show a bit more grit around the ground? Yes. I just don’t think he is a bust yet.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Sharp Axes

I think we also need to remember we are not a club who is going to attract the A Graders. Treloar fell into our arms but we are much like the Saints/North who have to pay the "shit club" tax on B Grade players ie: Lobb. and pay overs. It is why we are so lucky that we have done well with the draft and usually nail it with our early picks.

We therefore have to take a punt on the guys like Lobb/Bruce/Crozier/Keath in the hope they suit our needs. All those guys were $500k plus.

I'm starting to think there's a widening gap between the Marvel tenants and the MCG tenants/Geelong.

Seeing this crowd today crikey Melbourne are Bradburying their way to profit.

Theyre on a par with us, the MCG gives them a massive bonus we don't get.

[Bullies]

Re: Sharp Axes

Who in St Kilda's coaching panel is experienced?

I would love everyone who keeps talking about 'experienced coaches' coming in as assistants thinks an assistant coach does.

Because if what you think they do is over-ride the senior coach and implement their own system instead then you don't want to get a new assistant - you want to get a new coach.

If you think the develop relationships with players and lines and work with them to implement the strategy laid down by the senior coach, well, that's 100% what they do. They challenge individuals and lines to achieve set goals using a series of structures and a style of play that they practice + drill relentlessly...

I might be wrong but I feel this idea of a 'white knight' AC who will come in and 'CHANGE' Bevo to be 'someone else' (either through 'challenging him' which seems to be a common theory) or bribing him or black-mailing him or drugging him or whatever means necessary I guess...that idea is a MYTH. If you want an AC to do all that stuff then what you want is a new coach.

For what its worth Marc Webb is very highly rated in the AFL. Freo tried to retain him as Asst Coach. The players also regard him highly.

[macca]

Re: Sharp Axes

I?m not convinced Lobb is a bust yet. If we start honouring some of his leads when he is within our F50 he could be ok. I also think he is a clever tap ruck. Would I like home to show a bit more grit around the ground? Yes. I just don?t think he is a bust yet.

If Fremantle were giving him B+ midfield delivery, ours would be a C:
C- converging players
C- crap delivery
C- can we do some training in forward leading patterns ?

He kicked 36.24 (60%) conversion last year

[Hotdog60]

Re: Sharp Axes

I in the keep Bevo camp regardless of what happens this season but if we do fall short I think a full season review is needed and discuss why selections were made what was the thought process was here and there and what can we do as a club to get things moving forward.
If Bevo goes do we get a untried coach or do we go for say Hardwick who may no be motivated to coach and if we offer the world may take because it too good to refuse and half through say nah I have enough.
I think Bevo a very good coach and it may just need more assistance in the coaching ranks.

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Sharp Axes

I'm starting to think there's a widening gap between the Marvel tenants and the MCG tenants/Geelong.

Seeing this crowd today crikey Melbourne are Bradburying their way to profit.

Theyre on a par with us, the MCG gives them a massive bonus we don't get.

Yes. Agree. The Bombers ditched Windy Hill early and embraced the MCG. When Docklands came, they were enticed to the new stadium. It wasn't a good decision. It has allowed the like of Collingwood and Richmond to go past them IMHO.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Sharp Axes

Yes. Agree. The Bombers ditched Windy Hill early and embraced the MCG. When Docklands came, they were enticed to the new stadium. It wasn't a good decision. It has allowed the like of Collingwood and Richmond to go past them IMHO.

Yeah and we are the only team to win a flag from there.

Dons in 2000 were half and half from memory.

[GVGjr]

Re: Sharp Axes

I in the keep Bevo camp regardless of what happens this season but if we do fall short I think a full season review is needed and discuss why selections were made what was the thought process was here and there and what can we do as a club to get things moving forward.
If Bevo goes do we get a untried coach or do we go for say Hardwick who may no be motivated to coach and if we offer the world may take because it too good to refuse and half through say nah I have enough.
I think Bevo a very good coach and it may just need more assistance in the coaching ranks.

Bevo is a very good coach, no doubt about it but to me it's a flawed logic that says regardless of how this season plays out we simply stick with him. We shouldn't be scared to test the market if we we are falling short of the mark.
If we are blaming the quality of the list then why did we top up with experienced players at the end of last season? That doesn't seem to be an approach a club would take if they didn't rate our chances.
In fact after our GF run in 2021 and knowing Bruce and McLean would miss most of 2022 we didn't make a lot of changes then either.
Our history would say the club rates the list so we need to pinpoint other reasons if we don't measure up this year.
Is the relocation away from the Whitten Oval something that has impacted the teams performance?

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: Sharp Axes

I in the keep Bevo camp regardless of what happens this season but if we do fall short I think a full season review is needed and discuss why selections were made what was the thought process was here and there and what can we do as a club to get things moving forward.
If Bevo goes do we get a untried coach or do we go for say Hardwick who may no be motivated to coach and if we offer the world may take because it too good to refuse and half through say nah I have enough.
I think Bevo a very good coach and it may just need more assistance in the coaching ranks.

A review was supposed to have happened last year. We weren’t privy to its findings. The only new blood was Lade.

While I’m not doubting mjp’s greater understanding of how coaching panels work it just seems logical that more experienced coaches eg Mark Williams at Melb and/or those who’ve played and coached elsewhere bring something extra to the table even if it’s fresh ideas.

[Pedro Sanchez]

Re: Sharp Axes

For what its worth, Lipinski was also offered a much bigger salary at the Pies. Him, and Young now at the Blues, were both able to line their pockets, secure longer term contracts and also get more playing time opportunities. Dogs weren't prepared, and rightly so given their form up until that point, to match.

Just sayin...

In terms of camps, pro bevo or against, i dont have one. Actually maybe I'm in the performance camp - if that's even a thing. At the moment in my view we are performing pretty well, we're just not getting the results.

At the half way point of the season, I'm prepared to let it ride and assess final opinions once the cup has been won. Only then will we see who the real winners are/is. Hoping our club can refine its game plans execution between now and then to turn a corner and give ourselves every chance come the pointy end of the season.

[EasternWest]

Re: Sharp Axes

For what its worth, Lipinski was also offered a much bigger salary at the Pies. Him, and Young now at the Blues, were both able to line their pockets, secure longer term contracts and also get more playing time opportunities. Dogs weren't prepared, and rightly so given their form up until that point, to match.

Just sayin...

In terms of camps, pro bevo or against, i dont have one. Actually maybe I'm in the performance camp - if that's even a thing. At the moment in my view we are performing pretty well, we're just not getting the results.

At the half way point of the season, I'm prepared to let it ride and assess final opinions once the cup has been won. Only then will we see who the real winners are/is. Hoping our club can refine its game plans execution between now and then to turn a corner and give ourselves every chance come the pointy end of the season.

Nailed it.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Sharp Axes

Nailed it.

Except the Lipinski part he was getting 40 touches a week in the twos.

Plus.. I mean look at him.

[Pedro Sanchez]

Re: Sharp Axes

Except the Lipinski part he was getting 40 touches a week in the twos.

Plus.. I mean look at him.

Fair point - he's a good looking rooster. But he also got a truck load of opps in the ones and never took them. Struggled to convert his VFL form onto the big stage for us. Could have been how we coached him, could have been he was still to young, but fair play to him, he's up and about now playing really well.