Sharp Axes

[EasternWest]

Re: Sharp Axes

What is the truth?

We have largely been an irrelevant club over the journey.

Bevo has made us relevant. We have played finals in 6 of 8 seasons. Two GFs. One Flag. Those are the facts.

When Bevo arrived at the club the place was falling apart at the seams. Coach, captain and CEO all walked out the door. Did anyone rate our list? We finished 14th in 2014. We finished 15th in 2015. We finished 16th in 2014. We had not played finals for four years. Those are facts.

Bevo arrived. With a busted club and busted list. We go 14-8 season #1. Just lose a final. We go 15-7 season #2 and win the flag. Did Bevo have the best list in the land? No. I don't think anyone would support that. Those are facts.

What is the truth now? Are the players playing for him? Definitely looks like it to me. Does he make some weird selection decisions. Yes. But he has done that since year #1. Does he try some players in different positions. Yes. But he has done that since year #1 too.

What are the other truths?

and living off it since. GF 2021 from 5th. Meh. Keeps spinning magnets for no reason. Zero consistency. Players clearly confused. Underachieving

These are truths.

I disagree with the "got lucky" in 2016 part because at the pointy end of the season we were clearly the most in form team and deserved to win.

The rest is truth.

I don't disagree with most of what you've said, but I'd almost argue that we're actually not relevant. Opposition clubs know at some point we'll give up a run of goals, so even when we get three, four goals up you never see their panicky side eyes.

[azabob]

Re: Sharp Axes

He is meant to be a professional and come up with some proper analysis.

and then this shit

Where did Cornes say "Got lucky for 4 weeks in 2016"

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Sharp Axes

You forgot the word wanker.

I'm not too sure he is a wanker. I think a lot of it is his media "villain" personality that he is happy to play for $$$.

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

What is the truth?

We have largely been an irrelevant club over the journey.

Bevo has made us relevant. We have played finals in 6 of 8 seasons. Two GFs. One Flag. Those are the facts.

When Bevo arrived at the club the place was falling apart at the seams. Coach, captain and CEO all walked out the door. Did anyone rate our list? We finished 14th in 2014. We finished 15th in 2015. We finished 16th in 2014. We had not played finals for four years. Those are facts.

Bevo arrived. With a busted club and busted list. We go 14-8 season #1. Just lose a final. We go 15-7 season #2 and win the flag. Did Bevo have the best list in the land? No. I don't think anyone would support that. Those are facts.

What is the truth now? Are the players playing for him? Definitely looks like it to me. Does he make some weird selection decisions. Yes. But he has done that since year #1. Does he try some players in different positions. Yes. But he has done that since year #1 too.

What are the other truths?

The other truth is we have a bunch of mid/small size players that are just not doing enough in the team - Scott, McNeil, Duryea, VDM, West and we have a flaky backline with Keath and Duryea basically cooked, Gardner a honest trier, Richards, Williams and Dale making errors with kicking and a midfield that is just happy to slap the ball on their foot and not look where they are kicking - Treloar, Macrae, Smith and sometimes Bont as well.

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

I'm not too sure he is a wanker. I think a lot of it is his media "villain" personality that he is happy to play for $$$.

I don't like MSM, I don't like shock jocks.

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Sharp Axes

and living off it since. GF 2021 from 5th. Meh. Keeps spinning magnets for no reason. Zero consistency. Players clearly confused. Underachieving

These are truths.

I disagree with the "got lucky" in 2016 part because at the pointy end of the season we were clearly the most in form team and deserved to win.

The rest is truth.

I don't disagree with most of what you've said, but I'd almost argue that we're actually not relevant. Opposition clubs know at some point we'll give up a run of goals, so even when we get three, four goals up you never see their panicky side eyes.

We have been part of the AFL main conversation basically in every single season of the Bevo era. The golden teams of my childhood in the Bombers and Blues have not won a final in the Bevo era. They are irrelevant. We have been very relevant.

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Sharp Axes

The other truth is we have a bunch of mid/small size players that are just not doing enough in the team - Scott, McNeil, Duryea, West and we have a flaky backline with Keath basically cooked, Gardner a honesty trier, Richards, Williams and Dale making errors with kicking and a midfield that is just happy to slap the ball on their foot and not look where they are kicking - Treloar, Macrae, Smith and sometimes Bont as well.

Agree 100%.

I don't think our list is balanced so therefore it ain't very good. It is not a top four list. Our midfield is one paced. We lack some pace and speed in the middle. Our key forwards are relatively young. Darcy and Marra are babies. Naughton is still young for key a position forward. We don't have any classy tall defenders. We have battlers. The list does have some key strengths. We have A grade half backs and we have the most classy mid in the league and we probably also have the best inside extracting mid in the league. We also have close to the best Ruckman.

[EasternWest]

Re: Sharp Axes

Is he wrong though? It's shit snarky language, but is he wrong?

I know because I'm asking you this question you'll obfuscate or deny, but we both know what the truth is.

Or I forgot to mention the other thing you do when you can't answer: refuse to respond.

I apologise if you think I'm having a go at you, I'm not. I'm just filthy as I've probably been for ages about our current situation and I'm tired of hearing defense of Beveridge instead of reasonable criticism.

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

and living off it since. GF 2021 from 5th. Meh. Keeps spinning magnets for no reason. Zero consistency. Players clearly confused. Underachieving These are truths.

Can't agree, we have made finals every year except 2017, and 18. That is consistent.

A Meh for 2021 GF is bullshit - I bet the other 16 teams would have loved to have been there.

Players confused - where does he get that rubbish from - no proof, just an off the cuff comment.

Underachieving - yeah maybe or over rating our players more like it.

I'm tired of hearing defense of Beveridge instead of reasonable criticism.

Reasonable criticism should happen when you lose games - but not off the cuff BS (not you EW, Cornes or anyone.)

[GVGjr]

Re: Sharp Axes

Cornes and King on Bevo:



Main points:
- We load up forwards too much
- No intercept defender, Jones isn't enough
- Can't stop momentum run-ons
- Strange selections (JOD, Darcy)
- List is too good to waste
- What's Lobb for?
- Preseason mistakes

A lot of the points they raised have been discussed on here.
- Selection integrity
- Good list that's under-performing
- Inability to slow teams down when they're on a run

Had that mentioned goal kicking accuracy I'd say they had been scanning WOOF

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

A lot of the points they raised have been discussed on here.
- Selection integrity
- Good list that's under-performing
- Inability to slow teams down when they're on a run

Had that mentioned goal kicking accuracy I'd say they had been scanning WOOF

Wouldn't be surprised, investigative journalism is all but dead

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Sharp Axes

Or I forgot to mention the other thing you do when you can't answer: refuse to respond.

I apologise if you think I'm having a go at you, I'm not. I'm just filthy as I've probably been for ages about our current situation and I'm tired of hearing defense of Beveridge instead of reasonable criticism.

I guess these are the important questions.

Is the list that good? Do you believe another coach would be getting more out of the list than Bevo?

My answer is no. I don't think so. It is a obviously a hypothetical question. I think the list is mid table. I think that no other coach would have this list entrenched in the top four.

However, do we need a coaching change? Potentially yes. Every journey must come to an end eventually. Nothing lasts forever. I'm not 100% certain that his journey is up right now, but it can't last forever. Nothing does.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Sharp Axes

Or I forgot to mention the other thing you do when you can't answer: refuse to respond.

I apologise if you think I'm having a go at you, I'm not. I'm just filthy as I've probably been for ages about our current situation and I'm tired of hearing defense of Beveridge instead of reasonable criticism.

I agree with Cornes. I don't care what his job is and what he's supposed to do. He's not wrong.

Firstly, I think Bevo is/was a great coach who has had his run. I'm not sure if it's just a change of club that he needs or whether the game has passed him.

Secondly, I don't think he inherited a crap list when he came in. We had just done some magnificent drafting in the Bmac years. We had drafted Macrae and Stringer and Bont the next year along with C Smith, Dal, Libba. Combined with some all time veteran leadership in Murph, Boyd, Morris, Wood etc. BMac instilled some important fundamentals in the group but Bevo was fantastic in taking it to the next level with his superb tactical and people skills. 2015 and 16 are still my most favourite seasons as a Bulldog fan.

Thirdly, I'm sick of the got lucky crap we hear about 2016. We were absolutely dominant that year and if it weren't for injuries we'd have been clear top 4, even top 2. We won 15 games which is typically good for top 4.

Fourthly, even though Bevo was at peak genius levels from his debut with us, doesn't mean he's entitled to a free pass or that he will always be a coaching genius. There have been many great coaches who just couldn't keep up with the game.

We've had 3 excellent seasons under Bevo but 6 pretty average ones. Comparing Bevos tenure with our grim history is not the recipe for success. Of course he's our most successful coach, but the bar was pretty low! Should we have achieved more? Maybe. Who knows. Ultimately, I believe this list is capable of more. Theres a certain staleness to the club and it does indeed feel like the players are a little lost out there. Either that or we have recruited the dumbest list in the afl. This forum has been debating the same old topics for nearly 5 years now. Doesn't that indicate something?

[jeemak]

Re: Sharp Axes

Is he wrong though? It's shit snarky language, but is he wrong?

I know because I'm asking you this question you'll obfuscate or deny, but we both know what the truth is.

He won 15 games in 2016 with a ridiculous injury profile. The comment is bullshit.

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Sharp Axes

I agree with Cornes. I don't care what his job is and what he's supposed to do. He's not wrong.

Firstly, I think Bevo is/was a great coach who has had his run. I'm not sure if it's just a change of club that he needs or whether the game has passed him.

Secondly, I don't think he inherited a crap list when he came in. We had just done some magnificent drafting in the Bmac years. We had drafted Macrae and Stringer and Bont the next year along with C Smith, Dal, Libba. Combined with some all time veteran leadership in Murph, Boyd, Morris, Wood etc. BMac instilled some important fundamentals in the group but Bevo was fantastic in taking it to the next level with his superb tactical and people skills. 2015 and 16 are still my most favourite seasons as a Bulldog fan.

Thirdly, I'm sick of the got lucky crap we hear about 2016. We were absolutely dominant that year and if it weren't for injuries we'd have been clear top 4, even top 2. We won 15 games which is typically good for top 4.

Fourthly, even though Bevo was at peak genius levels from his debut with us, doesn't mean he's entitled to a free pass or that hebwillcalways be a coaching genius. There have been many great coaches who just couldn't keep up with the game. We've had 3 excellent seasons under Bevo but 6 pretty average ones. Comparing Bevos tenure with our grim history is not the recipe for success. Of course he's our most successful coach, but the bar was pretty low! Should we have achieved more? Maybe. Who knows. Ultimately, I believe this list is capable of more. This forum has been debating the same old topics for nearly 5 years now. Doesn't that indicate something?

All valid points. Appreciate the point of view. Don't agree with all of all of it but lots is hard to dispute.

In regards to the list. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Would have an outsider rated the list at the end of 2014? Nope. Let's look at one player. Easton Wood. No one rated him. He was AA in 2015. Why? 100% Bevo. Bevo made him AA. If you listen to Easton speak about the period and the confidence that Bevo gave him and others ... itwas inspiring to listen too.

So you may say in hindsight. The list was great. But how much of that was due to Bevo getting the most out of players.