Sharp Axes

[Danjul]

Re: Sharp Axes

Just saying 12 months on when we get to the 2025 finals. We will not be the same side that played the Hawks this year.

All good sides have speed. Cats, Hawks, Power Blues, GWS etc. we can match them for grunt and class but we need some more speed and what I do believe is that unfortunately Lidda, CD and MaCrae will not be part of the solution. Get something for them while we can.

I can see merit in that logic but?

On Friday Macrae came on during the third quarter and got 30% game time.

From that moment Hawthorn kicked 4 goals and the Dogs got 4 goals.

What happened to the bloodbath that had people near me already leaving? You know, where Hawthorn got 8 of 9 consecutive goals. Memories of the 2021 GF.

When Macrae came on things went back to normal and the person next to me put away their kindle and came back to the footy.

The spin and promise around the four headed monster was a lie.

And so is the fact that two of our more talented players have to make way for speedsters who can?t get the ball, and when it falls into their lap can?t kick a goal from 30 metres when the team desperately needs it. At halftime the Dogs had kicked 2 goals from 6 shots within 30 metres of goal.

That is where the focus should be. We have a team that lacks skills. How did Sicily get 10 disposals in the second quarter? Because players trying to be speedsters kept kicking the ball to him. Yes, they were aiming for the teammate 15 metres away in the clear, but as I said, this group lacks basic skills when the pressure is applied.

both Daniel and Macrae have been close to our best players when they have been on the ground in the last two games. The word reliable comes to mind.

unless you replace what they are delivering the team will go backwards.

[Mofra]

Re: Sharp Axes

The loss is still raw but we could look to trade Duryea, Harmes, Macrae and Daniel for starters. Weightman and Ugle-Hagan's performance was woeful and they need a rocket for not showing up on the big stage.

How sharp are our axes?

To me there is a big problem in the middle and it hurts because he's been my favourite player for a long time, but it's Libba.
It's great he flies the flag but his opponent burns him off so many times from stoppage he's gone from our most underrated player to potentially a liability against the top midfields.

I would absolutely 100% keep Macrae as he now seems to have his head around playing outside the contest, but still has ball winning nous. He's had half the opportunity of our 'A grade' mids this year but sits among them comfortably for clearances (on a TOG basis).

Liam Jones has slowed down towards the back end of the season too so I have concerns he's a week in, week out proposition.
With Barrass saying no, do we get a stop gap or just throw Buss to the wolves? At this point, I'm leaning towards option B. He was a mile off the pace in his first year but has been brilliant playing an old-school FB role at VFL level, taking kickouts and getting involved in chains from our last line. Cop the early season hit to accelerate his development.

Duryea absolutely deserves another year but we still have no replacement and it's a massive worry. Moniz-Wakefield is apparently on our radar and he has pace so could be an option but he might not be ready to go next year.

Chook's a great VFL close to goal small forward but at AFL level our deepest smalls still need to get up and defend the ground. Can he do that? Ever? I have concerns.

[Bullies]

Re: Sharp Axes

How sharp are our axes?

To me there is a big problem in the middle and it hurts because he's been my favourite player for a long time, but it's Libba.
It's great he flies the flag but his opponent burns him off so many times from stoppage he's gone from our most underrated player to potentially a liability against the top midfields.

I would absolutely 100% keep Macrae as he now seems to have his head around playing outside the contest, but still has ball winning nous. He's had half the opportunity of our 'A grade' mids this year but sits among them comfortably for clearances (on a TOG basis).

Liam Jones has slowed down towards the back end of the season too so I have concerns he's a week in, week out proposition.
With Barrass saying no, do we get a stop gap or just throw Buss to the wolves? At this point, I'm leaning towards option B. He was a mile off the pace in his first year but has been brilliant playing an old-school FB role at VFL level, taking kickouts and getting involved in chains from our last line. Cop the early season hit to accelerate his development.

Duryea absolutely deserves another year but we still have no replacement and it's a massive worry. Moniz-Wakefield is apparently on our radar and he has pace so could be an option but he might not be ready to go next year.

Chook's a great VFL close to goal small forward but at AFL level our deepest smalls still need to get up and defend the ground. Can he do that? Ever? I have concerns.

I said earlier in the year when Libba was out for awhile that I didn't want to be the one that shoots Bambi but we moved the ball out of the middle so much better when he was absent. I think next year they may need to go "horses for courses" where Libba can play at Marvel and only against teams that done have pace to burn. The G and Adelaide Oval are not his favorite hunting grounds and some of our worse losses.

In defense of Jones the Hawks took him well out of the game. At one stage there I watched as Jones opponent was standing behind the point post. There was no way they were letting him influence the game. Buss will come in next year and be ready to go with the grounding he has had. As much as a lot of supporters don't rate Gardner he also plays the shut down role which none of the other defenders do and he does it well. Just don't give ball in hand.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Sharp Axes

Read somewhere we've only won finals in 2/10 seasons under Bevo. So that would mean 5 EF losses.

Yes, we won the flag and made the GF in the other year, but that's a record that is starting to work against Bevo in a weird but understandable way.

I think it highlights our tenure so far under Bevo - consistently inconsistent. Capable of the extraordinary (2016) but more likely to deliver frustration and disappointment (basically every other year - 2021 included in the end).

This whole thing is quite complex and much of the blame still rests with the players, but it is the list he has assembled after all, and it's the lapses he still cannot fix. The issues we've faced since 2017 essentially remain and the build up of EF losses is looking pretty awful, given how we've also underperformed in that time.

I'd like to see us move in a different direction.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Sharp Axes

Read somewhere we've only won finals in 2/10 seasons under Bevo. So that would mean 5 EF losses.

Yes, we won the flag and made the GF in the other year, but that's a record that is starting to work against Bevo in a weird but understandable way.

I think it highlights our tenure so far under Bevo - consistently inconsistent. Capable of the extraordinary (2016) but more likely to deliver frustration and disappointment (basically every other year - 2021 included in the end).

This whole thing is quite complex and much of the blame still rests with the players, but it is the list he has assembled after all, and it's the lapses he still cannot fix. The issues we've faced since 2017 essentially remain and the build up of EF losses is looking pretty awful, given how we've also underperformed in that time.

I'd like to see us move in a different direction.

The problem I have is that Bevo refuses to adjust to some key things:

- won’t actually tag an oppo mid out of killing us, a lot of players got PB or resurgent headlines (Fyffe) when playing us
- won’t stop guys like Sicily from killing us every time
- won’t adjust his ideas on Tim as the first ruck
- won’t allow some guys to bank good performances (West) while others get games (Gags)
- has left field ideas like not starting Tim earlier this year, and Marra on the bench as season leading goal kicker Friday
- still has periods in some games where he’s woefully outcoached
- says we are going to start the season really well each year, and we lose the first couple or so
- still hasn’t gotten us to a top four finish, after 10 attempts


I think he’s made some improvements this year, and if he was prepared to change his core beliefs on things that are right/wrong then I’d be more inclined to give him more rope. But the thing is, the things that hold us back are the things you must accept by keeping him in the job. He’s not going to change and that’s fine, that’s him. But part of keeping him around is to accept that changes that could really help improve things won’t eventuate while he is coach. It’s almost for me not about him or personality. It’s about ideas. I’d like to see change in ideas not necessarily coaches. But realistically like any man of a certain age, he’s not changing the core beliefs he has. Even if it means not achieving success again because he so strongly believes it will happen even when the league is moving in other directions.

I don’t think the club will move him on and he won’t walk. But I’m tired of the same things playing out because he’s fixated on certain ideas. I wouldn’t sign him any time soon even if his contract is a distraction. And if we keep making the same mistakes again then it’s time to try something else to stop making them. I mean if he walked, I wouldn’t be unhappy.

[Sedat]

Re: Sharp Axes

After Friday night, I am completely on the fence on Bevo long-term. The pros and cons have been articulated and there's clear merit on both sides. At 14-9 before Friday night and with the methods/tactics deployed by the club under Bevo and the revamped MC this season, we felt more trustworthy and much less reliant on Bont brilliance to drag us over the line. We developed a turnover game to compliment our traditional stoppage/territory game, we had role players performing genuinely important roles, we comprehensively beat top 4 teams throughout the last 4 months, our percentage and scoring/defending profile indicated we had a rock-solid foundation that would hold us in good stead this finals series. Honestly, 2024 has felt different all year (until Friday night) to 2022-23, which were amongst the most frustrating and untrustworthy we've had in any season. But here we are essentially in the same place as 2022-23, and with a finals performance that was ruthlessly exposed as sub-par both in the box and out on the ground. Bevo has loyalty to his players that is both his greatest strength and weakness. The ruck situation has been discussed ad nauseum and it has obviously hurt us so bad for so long in big games - Bevo's loyalty here has paid a big price. So has the lack of defensive work in midfield/inability to curb opposition run-ons. The players can't have an out here - it is shared accountability.

Bevo clearly can coach and motivate a playing group better than most. Can he tactically adjust and adapt mid career, like Chris Scott and Longmire have successfully been able to? Would it change people's opinion if say Hawthorn did a Richmond 2017 and smashed the next 3 opponents en route to a flag with an 18-4 record after Round 5? That would make us just another team below the level of the dominant premier.

We have to be ruthless like we've never been before this off-season. This competition stops for nobody.

[Topdog]

Re: Sharp Axes

or

We won 11 of the last 15 pre final - not just a month of good footy.

That 11 of the last 15 included a patch where we went 3-3.

We then put in a month of good consistent football to win 4 games in a row, followed by an abject failure against Adelaide, beating up on a helpless North and a good win vs GWS.

In terms of consistency we've had 1 good month

[Mantis]

Re: Sharp Axes

After Friday night, I am completely on the fence on Bevo long-term. The pros and cons have been articulated and there's clear merit on both sides. At 14-9 before Friday night and with the methods/tactics deployed by the club under Bevo and the revamped MC this season, we felt more trustworthy and much less reliant on Bont brilliance to drag us over the line. We developed a turnover game to compliment our traditional stoppage/territory game, we had role players performing genuinely important roles, we comprehensively beat top 4 teams throughout the last 4 months, our percentage indicated we had a rock-solid foundation that would hold us in good stead this finals series. Honestly, 2024 has felt different all year (until Friday night) to 2022-23, which were amongst the most frustrating and untrustworthy we've had in any season. But here we are essentially in the same place as 2022-23, and with a finals performance that was ruthlessly exposed as sub-par both in the box and out on the ground. Bevo has loyalty to his players that is both his greatest strength and weakness. The ruck situation has been discussed ad nauseum and it has obviously hurt us so bad for so long in big games - Bevo's loyalty here has paid a big price. So has the lack of defensive work in midfield/inability to curb opposition run-ons. The players can't have an out here - it is shared accountability.

Bevo clearly can coach and motivate a playing group better than most. Can he tactically adjust and adapt mid career, like Chris Scott and Longmire have successfully been able to? Would it change people's opinion if say Hawthorn did a Richmond 2017 and smashed the next 3 opponents en route to a flag with an 18-4 record after Round 5? That would make us just another team below the level of the dominant premier.

We have to be ruthless like we've never been before this off-season. This competition stops for nobody.

Good summation.

I too was relatively happy to have a wait and see how our performance in the finals played out before determining how we proceed, but Friday night showed once again all the things we struggle with.

- we couldn't move the ball! After being the number 1 team all year in transferring the ball from D50 to F50 we were only successful once in our first 30 attempts. It was a shambles.

- team selection - it was a huge failure. JOD couldn't hold Dear and shouldn't have played. Gallagher who has been backed in all year had no impact. I know you need your key pillars to perform well, and that didn't happen, but we've seen this year positive contributions from our lesser likes, and we didn't really see that against the Hawks. Treloar really shouldn't have played... he couldn't run to defend and with him & Libba being tailed off we were always 2 short across the ground.

- English - once again was obliterated by a more combative opponent.

- Midfield - couldn't run with their opponents on the spread and when we won the ball we couldn't move it effectively.

- Rotations - Some really puzzling calls as called out in a number of threads. Not sure in what play book we had Naughton going to the ruck, but it screamed that the MC were out of ideas. Perhaps just fed up with Timid English playing poorly.

- No plan for the opposition's interceptors - it was farcical.

Like you I have a huge watch on how we get ourselves ready for 2025 and I'm in absolutely no rush to sign on Bevo. I'm not concerned about the external noise, it's a big boys league so we need to be strong and let the performances of the team dictate our direction.

[jeemak]

Re: Sharp Axes

Read somewhere we've only won finals in 2/10 seasons under Bevo. So that would mean 5 EF losses.

Yes, we won the flag and made the GF in the other year, but that's a record that is starting to work against Bevo in a weird but understandable way.

I think it highlights our tenure so far under Bevo - consistently inconsistent. Capable of the extraordinary (2016) but more likely to deliver frustration and disappointment (basically every other year - 2021 included in the end).

This whole thing is quite complex and much of the blame still rests with the players, but it is the list he has assembled after all, and it's the lapses he still cannot fix. The issues we've faced since 2017 essentially remain and the build up of EF losses is looking pretty awful, given how we've also underperformed in that time.

I'd like to see us move in a different direction.

The only EF that I think is unforgiveable is the Freo one, where a grand finalist team that should have won gave up a substantial lead following a great start.

All of the other years were rebuild or transitional years for the club, including this one, and while the results in themselves weren't great I can understand them. 2022 I can't make an excuse for.

[Sedat]

Re: Sharp Axes

The only EF that I think is unforgiveable is the Freo one, where a grand finalist team that should have won gave up a substantial lead following a great start.

All of the other years were rebuild or transitional years for the club, including this one, and while the results in themselves weren't great I can understand them. 2022 I can't make an excuse for.

You're far too kind to this team, Jee.

GWS 2019 performance was shameful - not the end result but the meek acceptance of our fate on the day.

St Kilda 2020 was completely unacceptable as well - another game where English as no 1 ruck was incredibly costly, with Ryder giving silver service and helping St Kilda directly to 4 goals from boundary stoppages alone (out of 10 goals total).

Leading Freo by 40 points in 2022 is the worst of the lot, but only by a matter of degrees. Of course we all know Sean Darcy was BOG in ruck directly against English as well that night.

Friday night was pretty ghastly as well. It will only age (slightly) better if Hawthorn run the table for the rest of the season.

[jeemak]

Re: Sharp Axes

You're far too kind to this team, Jee.

GWS 2019 performance was shameful - not the end result but the meek acceptance of our fate on the day.

St Kilda 2020 was completely unacceptable as well - another game where English as no 1 ruck was incredibly costly, with Ryder giving silver service and helping St Kilda directly to 4 goals from boundary stoppages alone (out of 10 goals total).

Leading Freo by 40 points in 2022 is the worst of the lot, but only by a matter of degrees. Of course we all know Sean Darcy was BOG in ruck directly against English as well that night.

Friday night was pretty ghastly as well. It will only age (slightly) better if Hawthorn run the table for the rest of the season.

The results on the day for each of 2019, 2020 and Friday night were complete horror shows, but where we actually ended up in terms of the season and ladder positions is to me relatively aligned with where our development suggested we should be.

The sum of the parts versus our on paper individual personnel has always been overrated to me, especially in 2019 and 2020.

[azabob]

Re: Sharp Axes

Okay, so it is highly likely Beveridge will be senior coach in 2025.

What other changes we should look to make to push us into the top four.

Beveridge seemed a lot more refreshed and energised, gut feel Matthew Egan helped with this, Chris Grant appeared to be skating on thin ice during the external review and was moved sideways. Not sure what this means for Grant.

We invested a lot in bringing in Jarryn Geary and Alex Johnson to help with leadership and development. We should be ok in this area. Same with our medical and fitness team.

Do we need to beef up our list management and recruiting team?

Onfield, do we need to beef up our coaching department or make any changes?

Daniel Pratt from the outside looking in did a bloody good job with our defence.

Our forwards had a lot of looks at goal, but at times it looked like we had no real structure or strategy. Does this put Spangher under pressure?

The midfield group let us down when we needed them the most. Does this put Lade under pressure?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Re: Sharp Axes

One thing about Bevo is he's not a bad coach but clearly not great for us since '16.
But we need someone great, deserving of our team.
One more before I die please.

[GVGjr]

Re: Sharp Axes

Hopefully we can retain most/all of the team and build from there.

Daniel Duvnjak-Zaknich and Des O'Sullivan head up the high performance and strength and conditioning teams and that works well.
Stuart Edge with the VFL and he's one of the hardest workers
The development coaching team looks to be a good one, Maddocks, Geary and A.Johnson
I've raised some questions on why our forward line isn't functioning as well as it should but Lade, Spangher and Pratt area good support to Bevo and Egan. Perhaps we need a bit more specialist coaches.

I'm not sure how many recruiters we have spread around the country but they could probably do with some help.

I'm not expecting many changes to the footy department unless we find something for Bob Murphy.

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

Okay, so it is highly likely Beveridge will be senior coach in 2025.
?

The changes now should be on field. Cleary the bottom 6 in the best 22 are still not up to scratch. We don't have the depth we thought as evidenced in the elimination final. I have said this all year and we did have some improvement. Hopefully the younger players take the next step.