Pick 4 - what's the right price?

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  • bulldogtragic
    The List Manager
    • Jan 2007
    • 34289

    #76
    Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

    As posted in the other thread, we will sell the deal to fans that the three thirds is equal in points to an early 20’s pick coming back.

    I think we got tunnel vision.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

    Comment

    • Rocco Jones
      Bulldog Team of the Century
      • Jun 2008
      • 6988

      #77
      Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

      OK I do not mean to be facetious or defensive of the club with the following but...those who are absolutely against the trade, are you in effectively saying you think you know better in this instance than Power? I sincerely am interested.

      I think the trade looks excessive, however also open to pick 4 looking an elite prospect and 10 + 17 relatively weak. If we did this in 2014, I would have thought it looked excessive but we got Bont at 4. Nathan Freeman went 10 and Apeness 17. I know an exceptional circumstance, but we kill that part.

      Again, I am very wary of the trade however I really struggle with absoluteness. If Power, Bevo, Grant et al know less than us, we are basically ****ed.

      Comment

      • Testekill
        WOOF Member
        • Jan 2015
        • 2327

        #78
        Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

        Whatever the price is, what we're getting back certainly isn't worth it.

        Comment

        • Rocco Jones
          Bulldog Team of the Century
          • Jun 2008
          • 6988

          #79
          Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

          Originally posted by Testekill
          Whatever the price is, what we're getting back certainly isn't worth it.
          I like your contributions so interested in response to this. If 100% view this as wrong, do you think Power and our brains trust involved in this need to go?

          Comment

          • bulldogtragic
            The List Manager
            • Jan 2007
            • 34289

            #80
            Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

            Originally posted by Rocco Jones
            OK I do not mean to be facetious or defensive of the club with the following but...those who are absolutely against the trade, are you in effectively saying you think you know better in this instance than Power? I sincerely am interested.

            I think the trade looks excessive, however also open to pick 4 looking an elite prospect and 10 + 17 relatively weak. If we did this in 2014, I would have thought it looked excessive but we got Bont at 4. Nathan Freeman went 10 and Apeness 17. I know an exceptional circumstance, but we kill that part.

            Again, I am very wary of the trade however I really struggle with absoluteness. If Power, Bevo, Grant et al know less than us, we are basically ****ed.
            I don’t think it’s about knowing better. You can agree or disagree with the price we will pay. I’m not in favour of such a high price.
            Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

            Comment

            • bulldogsthru&thru
              Bulldog Team of the Century
              • May 2011
              • 8050

              #81
              Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

              Originally posted by Rocco Jones
              OK I do not mean to be facetious or defensive of the club with the following but...those who are absolutely against the trade, are you in effectively saying you think you know better in this instance than Power? I sincerely am interested.

              I think the trade looks excessive, however also open to pick 4 looking an elite prospect and 10 + 17 relatively weak. If we did this in 2014, I would have thought it looked excessive but we got Bont at 4. Nathan Freeman went 10 and Apeness 17. I know an exceptional circumstance, but we kill that part.

              Again, I am very wary of the trade however I really struggle with absoluteness. If Power, Bevo, Grant et al know less than us, we are basically ****ed.
              It's the F1 and the real possibility it could be a top 10 pick that everyone is against.

              We're also selling all that for a non midfielder.

              Of course I don't think I know more than Power. I'd prefer we go for Geelongs pick 7 if it means we only give up 10 and 17. Otherwise hold the picks and hope Croft is bid on after our first live pick. If he is, we pass.

              Comment

              • hujsh
                Hall of Fame
                • Nov 2007
                • 11962

                #82
                Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

                Originally posted by Rocco Jones
                OK I do not mean to be facetious or defensive of the club with the following but...those who are absolutely against the trade, are you in effectively saying you think you know better in this instance than Power? I sincerely am interested.

                I think the trade looks excessive, however also open to pick 4 looking an elite prospect and 10 + 17 relatively weak. If we did this in 2014, I would have thought it looked excessive but we got Bont at 4. Nathan Freeman went 10 and Apeness 17. I know an exceptional circumstance, but we kill that part.

                Again, I am very wary of the trade however I really struggle with absoluteness. If Power, Bevo, Grant et al know less than us, we are basically ****ed.
                The future first is the hard to swallow part. If it was a future second I wouldn't be against it but if we play next year the way we finished this year pick 4-7 could well be what we're trading here. The club is gambling super hard on shooting up the ladder but they've expected us to be top 4 the last 2 years and failed badly so I don't trust their judgement TBH. Maybe Sam has been told to treat future picks as if we finish top 6. If so it explains why he's made such a bad deal.
                [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                Comment

                • The Bulldogs Bite
                  Hall of Fame
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 11409

                  #83
                  Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

                  We would need to understand the overall list strategy to form a better opinion.

                  Every chance we have made a calculated decision to get X amount of elite talent into the club. The only way to do this is with early picks (typically).

                  As we've seen with Marra/Darcy, the by-product of doing that is depth. It's always easier to address the latter than the former.

                  Perhaps we see next year as the start of being able to improve our depth through the draft.
                  W00F!

                  Comment

                  • bulldogtragic
                    The List Manager
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 34289

                    #84
                    Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

                    Originally posted by hujsh
                    The future first is the hard to swallow part. If it was a future second I wouldn't be against it but if we play next year the way we finished this year pick 4-7 could well be what we're trading here. The club is gambling super hard on shooting up the ladder but they've expected us to be top 4 the last 2 years and failed badly so I don't trust their judgement TBH. Maybe Sam has been told to treat future picks as if we finish top 6. If so it explains why he's made such a bad deal.
                    Gambling is it in a nutshell. Our firm line is not giving me the confidence to gamble with our most valuable asset of 2024. (Currently)
                    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

                    Comment

                    • Rocco Jones
                      Bulldog Team of the Century
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 6988

                      #85
                      Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

                      Sorry I am truly not intending to have a go. Maybe Power and co. are inept.

                      My thing is fans seemingly believe this is objectively incorrect. How are our feels with keeping Power and co. if they are making objectively incorrect calls?

                      Comment

                      • lemmon
                        Bulldog Team of the Century
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 6599

                        #86
                        Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

                        Originally posted by Rocco Jones
                        OK I do not mean to be facetious or defensive of the club with the following but...those who are absolutely against the trade, are you in effectively saying you think you know better in this instance than Power? I sincerely am interested.
                        How do you feel about questioning coaching decisions? Bevo would have more footy knowledge in his little finger than I'd accrue in a lifetime but I'm still pretty confident playing JOD forward wasn't in anyone's best interests.

                        I don't think there's any problem with fans having opinions about decisions being made by the club, simply because we aren't the employed experts.

                        Comment

                        • Rocco Jones
                          Bulldog Team of the Century
                          • Jun 2008
                          • 6988

                          #87
                          Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

                          Originally posted by lemmon
                          How do you feel about questioning coaching decisions? Bevo would have more footy knowledge in his little finger than I'd accrue in a lifetime but I'm still pretty confident playing JOD forward wasn't in anyone's best interests.

                          I don't think there's any problem with fans having opinions about decisions being made by the club, simply because we aren't the employed experts.
                          Totally get questioning. I am questioning Bevo and this trade as well. My thing is absoluteness and certainty in us being wrong.

                          And it's not a defence. It's a maybe if they are so clearly bad, we need to make a lot of sackings.

                          Comment

                          • hujsh
                            Hall of Fame
                            • Nov 2007
                            • 11962

                            #88
                            Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

                            Originally posted by Rocco Jones
                            Sorry I am truly not intending to have a go. Maybe Power and co. are inept.

                            My thing is fans seemingly believe this is objectively incorrect. How are our feels with keeping Power and co. if they are making objectively incorrect calls?
                            Ultimately every deal had to go through Grant (right?) Power's job is to negotiate the best deal he can but Grant is the one who needs to say 'appreciate your work but we need to walk away from this and try something else'. Much as I love Grant he's the one that needs to go if anyone. The way the off field stuff has been run the last few years I think all signs point to him being the weakest link.
                            [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                            Comment

                            • Rocco Jones
                              Bulldog Team of the Century
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 6988

                              #89
                              Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

                              Originally posted by bulldogsthru&thru
                              All the noise has us making some sort of move that looks like this.

                              It's bad and will only look worse this time next year.

                              This is so bloody typical of us. Geelong get pick 7 for free last years from the suns.

                              One year later we're paying pick 17 plus a F1 for a 6 pick upgrade. This could realistically look like pick 10, 17 plus 2024 pick 6-10 for pick 4.
                              Originally posted by bulldogtragic
                              GCS had to bend over a team eventually. Why not us?
                              Not picking on these two. Maybe they are right.

                              This isn't questioning. This is we are clearly wrong. If I was this absolute, I would want Power and co. gone. And maybe they should be.

                              Comment

                              • Topdog
                                Bulldog Team of the Century
                                • Jan 2007
                                • 7483

                                #90
                                Re: Pick 4 - what's the right price?

                                Originally posted by The Bulldogs Bite
                                Perhaps we see next year as the start of being able to improve our depth through the draft.
                                Going to be hard to add depth by giving away our 1st rounder next season.

                                Comment

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