Everitt

[comrade]

Re: Everitt

I have to call you out on your Roos worship this time Rocco man. Now I think Roos is a very good coach who stole a premiership using a boring negative gameplan. But I'm really kind of sick of people citing Kirk or Mumford (who was killing it for Geelong last year anyway) and forgeting that players like Bird or Vezpremi (who looked players early) have stagnated or that under Roos, Barry became angry and tired and the whole Nick Davis affair. Again the guy's a good coach but he has had big failures also.

You can cherry pick with Eade too. Before Rocket was our coach, Gilbee wanted to leave, Cross was horrible, Hargrave was being destroyed every week, Brian Lake was undisciplined and Cooney was talented but inconsistent. They all benefitted greatly from Eades influence. Even later the move of Harbrow to the backline was inspired, as was giving Hill and Grant a taste of AFL Football when they weren't ready.

I actually think both are quite comparable really with both making some big mistakes but having their successes far outweigh those mistakes.

Plenty of good discussion in this thread and this post is a ripper - well done.

[Mofra]

Re: Everitt

It's funny. Imagine Roos wasn't in charge of the Swans. Someone like Kirk or now Mumford may have ended up being nowhere near the level they achieved/are achieving under him. I believe someone like Everitt is a great example of a player who could be flourishing under a great coach but of course there is no way to prove otherwise.

I have to disagree here - Mumford came from nowhere whilst he was on Geelong's list.
Kirk would have made it anywhere - he had the desire to work hard and overcome his deficiencies, just like Crossy does.
Every club has players who come from nowhere to stamp an AFL career - with Boyd, Morris, Harbrow & Picken in our best 22, Moles playing football, and our no 1 defender comign through from pick 71 we would also have claims of developing players (especially ignoring our poor record with first round draft picks under Clayton).

I do think Roos is very good at selling brand Roos - I don't know how much his persona trully matches his image, but everyone seems to forget his premiership came off the back of a blessed run with injuries, controlling a list that was paid more than any other in the competition. The "no superstars at Sydney" myth is a fairly obvious piece of spin for mine.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Everitt

I have to call you out on your Roos worship this time Rocco man. Now I think Roos is a very good coach who stole a premiership using a boring negative gameplan. But I'm really kind of sick of people citing Kirk or Mumford (who was killing it for Geelong last year anyway) and forgeting that players like Bird or Vezpremi (who looked players early) have stagnated or that under Roos, Barry became angry and tired and the whole Nick Davis affair. Again the guy's a good coach but he has had big failures also.

You can cherry pick with Eade too. Before Rocket was our coach, Gilbee wanted to leave, Cross was horrible, Hargrave was being destroyed every week, Brian Lake was undisciplined and Cooney was talented but inconsistent. They all benefitted greatly from Eades influence. Even later the move of Harbrow to the backline was inspired, as was giving Hill and Grant a taste of AFL Football when they weren't ready.

I actually think both are quite comparable really with both making some big mistakes but having their successes far outweigh those mistakes.

I actually agree with most of what you have had to say. I think there can be a very fine line between greatness and just being good, especially when it comes to the very subjective example of rating an AFL coach.

You mention that I 'cherry pick(ed)' Eade. I was asked for reasons why I don't see him as a great coach. I totally agree that he has delivered more positives than negatives and also quickly admitted I was wrong to call him ordinary (I just view his week to week team selections in this category).

Just for fun here is my positive list
- Giving Gilbee, Cross and Hargrave a real go after they were rotting under Rohde. They went from VFL footty/really struggling in the AFL to being gun players.
- Role of Shaggy. His work with Shaggy has been great. He turned him from a defender who was exposed by everyone to one who regularly took advantage of his opponents. Bit like the fine that Dre has to deal with, hopefully he can do the same with him.
- Immediate improvement when he took over. We went from nothing to just stuffing up a chance to make and hit the finals running.
- Development of Boyd. Turned into a quality player.
- Harbrow as a running small defender.
- Bringing in experienced players in Hudson, Aker, Welsh and Hall. Perfect trading for a team that views themselves as a contender. Getting in quality players for small prices.
- Picken and Morris. Two rookies who were very limited and needed great roles to maximise their strengths and minimise their weaknesses.
- Non dickhead culture at the club.
- Continual work with Cooney
- Great in emdia/doing the off-field things for the club
- The pure facts= 2 prelims in a row is pretty good
- Has tactical styles to counter different styles of quality sides. A lot of our approach against the Saints was great just let down by being overly conservative as well as cracking Geelong's style before anyone IMO in the 2009 prelim.
- and more

My point wasn't to argue that Eade is a dud, far from the truth. I think I was overly harsh as I get that way when I play deveils advocate. I get much more animated when I am arguing against Eade haters. Perhaps you guys are right and Roos really isn't ahead of him at all. It's just, you know, there's one thing Roos has done that Eade hasn't. I can't quite put my finger on it but if Eade does it, I am pretty sure I will be very happy and definitely put Eade in that great coach category I have been prattling on about.

It's a very concrete way to get to greatness but it's a pretty important piece of data when rating something as subjective as being a great AFL coach.

[Mantis]

Re: Everitt

My point wasn't to argue that Eade is a dud, far from the truth. I think I was overly harsh as I get that way when I play deveils advocate. I get much more animated when I am arguing against Eade haters. Perhaps you guys are right and Roos really isn't ahead of him at all. It's just, you know, there's one thing Roos has done that Eade hasn't. I can't quite put my finger on it but if Eade does it, I am pretty sure I will be very happy and definitely put Eade in that great coach category I have been prattling on about.

It's a very concrete way to get to greatness but it's a pretty important piece of data when rating something as subjective as being a great AFL coach.

Are you trying to play us for fools with this comment?

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Everitt

Are you trying to play us for fools with this comment?

I'm not sure what you mean by, 'play us for fools'? Rocco's comment seemed to be a tongue in cheek reference to the fact that Roos has coached a premiership which Eade hasn't - which is of course true, and the one blemish on Rocket's otherwise outstanding resume.

[Desipura]

Re: Everitt

Are you trying to play us for fools with this comment?

Out of the whole article, you happened to focus on one line. Half empty kinda guy hey?

[Mantis]

Re: Everitt

Out of the whole article, you happened to focus on one line. Half empty kinda guy hey?

Is there an unwritten law that I need to reference the whole post to query one line?

Overall I thought the post was good, but took exception to the piece I highlighted... which is why I had the query.

Anyway, why does it concern you?

[Bornadog]

Re: Everitt

I'm not sure what you mean by, 'play us for fools'? Rocco's comment seemed to be a tongue in cheek reference to the fact that Roos has coached a premiership which Eade hasn't - which is of course true, and the one blemish on Rocket's otherwise outstanding resume.

Rocket has also taken a team into a grand final, which I don't believe is a blemish.

Yes Roos got the premiership, but you can argue that Rocket set it up for him.

Personally, if I had a choice between Roos and Rocket, I would take Rocket everytime.

[Desipura]

Re: Everitt

Is there an unwritten law that I need to reference the whole post to query one line?

Overall I thought the post was good, but took exception to the piece I highlighted... which is why I had the query.

Anyway, why does it concern you?

You seem to have a strong opinion (mostly negative on a number of posts). I think Droop St hit the nail on the head with his post about your strong opinions. Im awaiting your reply on that. You always want the last say, I await with interest........

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Everitt

Rocket has also taken a team into a grand final, which I don't believe is a blemish.

Yes Roos got the premiership, but you can argue that Rocket set it up for him.

Personally, if I had a choice between Roos and Rocket, I would take Rocket everytime.

I tend to agree, and certainly think with the strengths of our group, Rocket is a better man to lead us than Roos.

[Mantis]

Re: Everitt

You seem to have a strong opinion (mostly negative on a number of posts). I think Droop St hit the nail on the head with his post about your strong opinions. Im awaiting your reply on that. You always want the last say, I await with interest........

No idea what you talking about. Which thread is that in?

Anyway how does anything of what you have just posted relate to my comments in this thread? I queried a comment I didn't like which allows you to attack my posting style as I have 'strong opinions'?... Give it a break.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Everitt

In my (non-professional, just a massive dogs fan) opinion.

Rodney was our best option at the time, he is still probably the best option, he has done so much for the team and the club. He has raised my expectations of my team and a lot of other peoples too.

However, I do not understand why Everitt hasnt been getting more games. We have had a lot of injuries and I think he is a better player than Addison, Williams, Moles, Hill or Stack and this year Hahn and Eagle, who have all been given game time ahead of him. I would almost go as far as saying he is a better player than Wood or Picken too, its too soon to tell with Wood but the way Picken applies himself makes him a 30% player and I just love him.
I know there is the argument about the type of player being replaced and his ideal position but I am of the best player mindest rather than the job required one. Investing game time into this guy seems so logical to me, he is versatile and can be thrown into wherever we need him. So he is not setting the VFL on fire but neither was Grant. Everitt is still a better player than the previous 7 players I have mentioned. I am happy to discuss the pro's and cons of each of these players too.

In Rod I trust, so there must be something else happening like an attitude issue.

[stefoid]

Re: Everitt

I think Stack is getting a game based on his role, and is being fast tracked as plan B should Aker's implosion prove permanent. His competition (obviously) is then Aker.

Everitt is competing with Hill and Hahn, and currently both are keeping him out of the side, by a bee's willy I imagine. Everitt has the power to change that by playing a blinder or two in the seconds.

[Mofra]

Re: Everitt

However, I do not understand why Everitt hasnt been getting more games. We have had a lot of injuries and I think he is a better player than Addison, Williams, Moles, Hill or Stack and this year Hahn and Eagle, who have all been given game time ahead of him. I would almost go as far as saying he is a better player than Wood or Picken too, its too soon to tell with Wood but the way Picken applies himself makes him a

It's not so much who is the better player that is the question, but what they bring to the team that matters.
If Everitt's a backman, he's behind Lake, Morris, Gilbee, Harbrow, Shaggy, Williams, Murphy & on current form Wood.
As a tagger/run with type he would be behind Cross, Boyd, Picken, Ward and Reid.
As a forward obviously Hall, Johnno, Gia, Higgins and Grant are ahead of him, with Hill being our second highest goal scorer he's ahead too. Everitt can't play Stack's crumbling role so that rules him out there.
In the ruck Hudosn, Minson & Roughy are in front of him, and Williams was pinch-hitting in the Demons game too.
I'm not certain Everitt would offer us more than Hahn even though Hahn's been in poor form recently; at Willy Little, Rose and Jones take the marking forward options up, and now Panos is getting senior gametime so Everitt gets limited time there.
I think the club have expressed misgivings about his pace to play a pure midfield role, although I think his running capacity has improved this year and his long kicking means he could play wing IMO.
The problem here is Eagle has been improving, and Wood's form has meant Gilbee pushes up to a wing at times.

I don't want to sound overly harsh on him because I rate him as a player, but even if he is (say) the 20th most talented player available on our list for team balance reasons he may find himself outside of the best 22 which he currently is.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Everitt

I would say he is in our best 22 easily, however on the other hand I think all this game time at Willy is doing him the world of good and that in turn will only add to the depth of our playing stock!!