Season over

[GVGjr]

Re: Season over

Could also be the difference in getting a Franklin or a Williams(yes I know it's a compromised draft).

We could have taken Franklin at 3 so the argument doesnt hold up.
If that is the best reasoning you can come up with then it's no reason at all.

[BulldogBelle]

Re: Season over

I don't think our season is over, but have to agree with this -- my major concern was around the contested ball/clearance stats that we LOST against the GC, but was told in no uncertain terms by various posters that, because we won by 70 points, it's a meaningless stat and it was silly to criticise a team after a score like that (even though it was only against the Sunnybeach Moneygrubbers Under-12s).

Clearance stats may well be meaningless in a team with brilliant defenders or some magical forwardline, but in an even team like ours with very few superstar game-breakers, especially without an in-form Lake to basically cut 5-10 opposition goal scoring chances off every game and Hall to clunk a mark or Johnno and Aker to manufacture magical goals out of their butt, lose the clearance stats against a well-functioning team (and Essendon and WC this year are simply that, no more) and they'll run up a score.

So is it the skill or the will of the players?

The skill or the will why we cant win clearances?

The skill or the will why we cant execute our skills under pressure?

Skill or will why we are running as hard as some of the better teams we have come up against?

I think its the will...

With Boyd, Griffin, Cooney, Ward, Libba, Cross etc we have a plethora of inside players who when they want to be can be clearance kings, plus guys like Sherman, Addison, Wallis + Hudson who all arent slouches at extracting the hard ball, wining clearances and contests...

Aker and Johnno didnt do much last season, and our All-Australian bookends have been MIA for the majority of the season, but if we arent getting our paws on the ball first then we dont have a chance.

Something is wrong above the shoulders at the moment for the majority of our players

[LostDoggy]

Re: Season over

West Coast finished dead last in 2010 you know? They only won 4 games. And spent more money on their footy department than all but ONE other team (Pies). I am happy to credit Worsfold with the turnaround, but if you want to do that you also have to debit the failures of the last couple of years, the handling of the Cousins affair etc etc.

I have no doubt if we win only 4 games for the season that Eade will not be reappointed - Worsfold somehow survived that same scenario.

This.

There was an article online in The Age I think that compared the two coaches and how it was ludicrous that Rodney was the one under the pump and Worsfold was safe when the former had made the last 3 prelims and the latter had just won the wooden spoon.

Just shows how much sometimes supporters are victims of conventional wisdom rather than objective decision makers.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Season over

With Boyd, Griffin, Cooney, Ward, Libba, Cross etc we have a plethora of inside players who when they want to be can be clearance kings, plus guys like Sherman, Addison, Wallis + Hudson who all arent slouches at extracting the hard ball, wining clearances and contests...

Aker and Johnno didnt do much last season, and our All-Australian bookends have been MIA for the majority of the season, but if we arent getting our paws on the ball first then we dont have a chance.

Something is wrong above the shoulders at the moment for the majority of our players

Agree with most of this. I also think our 'clearance kings', as you call them, sometimes forget their limitations and play like millionaires, disregarding their direct opponents and trying dinky stuff that looks brilliant when it comes off but generally just leads to a turnover. Boydy is a much improved player but he's not Lenny Hayes or Gary Ablett and cannot be running around by himself, no matter what his Supercoach scores say.

If the players you've mentioned literally just focus on winning the ball, contesting stoppages, killing the game when necessary etc. we would have one of the most fearsome inside midfields around. Instead sometimes we resemble a marshmallow with a soft centre with opposition players just waltzing in and out of our stoppages at will. No way that should be happening to a team with the body strength and tackling ability of the mids you've mentioned.

[BulldogBelle]

Re: Season over

Agree with most of this. I also think our 'clearance kings', as you call them, sometimes forget their limitations and play like millionaires, disregarding their direct opponents and trying dinky stuff that looks brilliant when it comes off but generally just leads to a turnover. Boydy is a much improved player but he's not Lenny Hayes or Gary Ablett and cannot be running around by himself, no matter what his Supercoach scores say.

If the players you've mentioned literally just focus on winning the ball, contesting stoppages, killing the game when necessary etc. we would have one of the most fearsome inside midfields around. Instead sometimes we resemble a marshmallow with a soft centre with opposition players just waltzing in and out of our stoppages at will. No way that should be happening to a team with the body strength and tackling ability of the mids you've mentioned.

So do you think the appropriate team rules and structure are in place, and our midfield group doesnt follow them?

Or do you think our coaching staff havent set a clear direction and structure for players to follow...

Do we hear Rocket constantly saying that certain players arent following instructions?

[chef]

Re: Season over

We could have taken Franklin at 3 so the argument doesnt hold up.If that is the best reasoning you can come up with then it's no reason at all.

No argument, just making the point that one draft position can make a hell of a difference. It had nothing to do with Griffen instead of Franklin.

[chef]

Re: Season over

West Coast finished dead last in 2010 you know? They only won 4 games. And spent more money on their footy department than all but ONE other team (Pies). I am happy to credit Worsfold with the turnaround, but if you want to do that you also have to debit the failures of the last couple of years, the handling of the Cousins affair etc etc.

I have no doubt if we win only 4 games for the season that Eade will not be reappointed - Worsfold somehow survived that same scenario.

He did, he also changed his philosophy on coaching going from man on man to a zone. His has done wonders for his team IMO(and Scott Burns probably needs a bit of credit for this as well).

[GVGjr]

Re: Season over

No argument, just making the point that one draft position can make a hell of a difference. It had nothing to do with Griffen instead of Franklin.

You haven't made a point because additional draft picks or earlier ones mean nothing if you can't don't end up selecting the right people.

[GVGjr]

Re: Season over

It's a funny old world. I reckoned we were rubbish from Round 1, but got shouted down here.

No surprise to me that our season is over - IIRC I even reckoned we weren't too good against the two Qld teams, despite the scores. The signs were clear and waiting to be revealed against quality opponents, but again shouted down here.

The game v Pies was telling - we were only in it for a while due their inaccuracy, and then they ran over us just like WCE.

Re the WCE game, I thought we'd get belted but not something like 19 goals to one in a bit over a quarter.

Dunno what the problems are or how to fix them, but I reckon it's a bit rich the way some here and on BF put it all at the feet of Eade. He wasn't out there playing in the last quarter on Sunday.

You predicted the same demise of the club almost exactly 12 months earlier (check your posts) and we finished in the top 4 and I think you indicated the same 12 months before that. You eventually got it right.

[chef]

Re: Season over

You haven't made a point because additional draft picks or earlier ones mean nothing if you can't don't end up selecting the right people.

In 2002 we finished 2 points clear of Freo in 12th position. They had pick 3(which they traded to Brissie) and we had pick 4. We would have picked Brennan(according to Clayton) if he was available instead we ended up with Walsh. One pick can(but not always) make a hell of a difference.

[alwaysadog]

Re: Season over

So do you think the appropriate team rules and structure are in place, and our midfield group doesnt follow them?

Or do you think our coaching staff havent set a clear direction and structure for players to follow...

Do we hear Rocket constantly saying that certain players arent following instructions?

It's a confusion.

Coaches have more to do than set patterns, even half the posters on this board could do that.

When coaches say that players aren't following instructions you have to wonder about how effective the coaching has been, and ask has the coaching been clear, does the supposed direction and structure stand up in the heat of battle, do the players have faith in it, or are our players just wilful, ie they know better but prefer to lose?

When the rhetoric is deconstructed the latter doesn't make much sense does it?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Season over

Question for the WOOFers.
What is the biggest loss (margin wise) ever by a Premiership team within that season?
Anyone?

[GVGjr]

Re: Season over

In 2002 we finished 2 points clear of Freo in 12th position. They had pick 3(which they traded to Brissie) and we had pick 4. We would have picked Brennan(according to Clayton) if he was available instead we ended up with Walsh. One pick can(but not always) make a hell of a difference.

So by your own admission it's a risky road to go down but you are still prepared to deliberately have the team drop games to move up the draft ladder for what would no doubt be a mid range draft pick. You still haven't convinced me that jeopardizing memberships and sponsorship by dropping games is the right way to go.

[Dry Rot]

Re: Season over

You predicted the same demise of the club almost exactly 12 months earlier (check your posts)

Demise is a bit over the top isn't it?

de·mise *!(d-mz)
n.
1.
a. Death.
b. The end of existence or activity; termination: the demise of the streetcar.
2. Law Transfer of an estate by lease or will.
3. The transfer of a ruler's authority by death or abdication.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/demise

Never said the club would fold, a meteor would hit Whitten Oval etc. IIRC I did say we didn't have the team, structures etc to win the flag in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008.

As you say, I got it right this year, so let's look at the rest. As you suggested, I checked my posts:

Season 2010

Posted 4/4/10

AgainI think you're misunderstanding the context of this, or I haven't connected it clearly.

The Bulldogs Bite has questioned the structure of forward line and noted the ease with which the Pies rebounded. I think he's made some reasonable points and maybe our critics who claimed that our forward line could suffer with so many older players might be right.

I suspect we've seen the best of Aker and Johnno, and throw in Hall and Hahn and sometimes Minson and we look top heavy and slow up forward.

- Correct call. Hall's 80 goals and late season injuries can't hide the fact we couldn't beat teams above us.

Season 2009

Posted 12/8/09 in an exchange with Ozza

I have to say - as much as we hear about the Dogs being such a high scoring team, we simply don't get much out of our Inside 50s against the best sides. We turn the ball over by heading into a forward line that loses its structure under increased pressure.

Its often said that 'the way to beat the bulldogs is to expose them with your key forwards' - but I think that is rubbish. We have a very good record against Brisbane with their 'twin towers' and we will beat them this week because they lack a bit of quality in defence.

Agreed - whatever works against lesser sides, doesn't against the best ones.

- Correct call

Posted 7/9/09

Who are you thinking of?

Interesting that if we don't make the GF (and I don't think we'll get past the Saints) then a few here are now effectively coming round to my view of doing a rebuild. Our window will have closed with this team (if it was ever open) .

- Correct call

As an aside, here's a prescient post from Mantis late 2009 - posted 8/9/09

Neither will I, but if we don't grasp our opportunity this year we need to make some changes to the list and to the personnel we select on a regular basis.

- Correct call

Season 2008

Posted 9/1/08 - early concerns about needing a changed game plan

IMHO this year it is more important for us - not winning the final but how we go about playing.

I hear the players are a bit bigger, so let's see them throw their weight around. I want to see us start winning clearnaces with Hudson and see how the Minson as a forward experiment begins to pan out. Also like to see some signs of a varied gameplan and better defence.

All that should win us some games but for me the important bit is how we try to play differently (and better).

- Correct call

20/9/08

Perhaps they were all carrying injuries, but it looked to me that time has caught up with Johnno, Aker, Welsh, Hudson and Eagleton for the last half of the season.

What can we expect from them next season?

- Correct call

Posted 19/9/08
Re: Another Prelim Loss

On an hour delay in Sydney, but I reckon we've done well for a side without a forward line nor a system of delivering to it.

- Correct call for a few years as it turned out.

You eventually got it right.

I'd say I've been right all along. I've enjoyed each season, but I had a fair idea how it would end better than many here.

Sometime realism isn't very popular.

[chef]

Re: Season over

So by your own admission it's a risky road to go down but you are still prepared to deliberately have the team drop games to move up the draft ladder for what would no doubt be a mid range draft pick. You still haven't convinced me that jeopardizing memberships and sponsorship by dropping games is the right way to go.

Not deliberately drop games, but deliberately getting games into the next generation and not worrying as much about the score board or ladder position.