Forward line 2012

[Greystache]

Re: Forward line 2012

It sounds like a good plan but if Roughead spends time in a pocket does it mean we have to play Jones as the CHF?

It does, but I think Jones is a more natural CHF anyway.

I'd have Roughead as a deep get out option, similar to the way Minson played with the benefit of Roughead being able to mark. I'd want Grant to lead every time we went inside 50 and the players look for him wherever possible.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Forward line 2012

It does, but I think Jones is a more natural CHF anyway.

I'd have Roughead as a deep get out option, similar to the way Minson played with the benefit of Roughead being able to mark. I'd want Grant to lead every time we went inside 50 and the players look for him wherever possible.

This.

We seem persistent with him as a HFF though, despite recruiting him as a FF.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Forward line 2012

Have my doubt on Grant at ff when he doesn't like any contact at all and FFs are niggled all the time. The oppositions have worked him out here.

[Happy Days]

Re: Forward line 2012

This.

We seem persistent with him as a HFF though, despite recruiting him as a FF.

+1.

I just don't understand the aversion to trying him out of the square for an extended run. His skill set is tailor made to play this role, but because he's adequate beneath his feet we seem dead set on having him crumb.

I don't see Roughy as too much of a barrier, he should be splitting time with Will, not just resting up forward.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Forward line 2012

that would depend. Some players get fired up and helps them perform ( Nadal)
Others like to keep cool as it helps them get perform ( Federa )
Either way, if you don't your revenge on the scoreboard, it means little.

Federer is an incredibly intense competitor, and actually had to find some self control to perform at his best. Was a racquet smasher in his early career.

Also, Fed intimidates by just destroying you with his precision and shot making. Players are intimidated before even stepping on the court. His pre seasons are also legendary dune running marathons in abu dhabi and dubai.

Comparing grant to that is laughable. No one is remotely intimidated by him, and he has no playing record to speak of. If he keeps cool and performs, that theory may have some credit. As it stands, he barely touches the ball so his keeping cool is irrelevant. The harsh truth that some seem unwilling to consider may be that he's just farking lazy for an AFL player in 2012.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Forward line 2012

Federer is an incredibly intense competitor, and actually had to find some self control to perform at his best. Was a racquet smasher in his early career.

Also, Fed intimidates by just destroying you with his precision and shot making. Players are intimidated before even stepping on the court. His pre seasons are also legendary dune running marathons in abu dhabi and dubai.

Comparing grant to that is laughable. No one is remotely intimidated by him, and he has no playing record to speak of. If he keeps cool and performs, that theory may have some credit. As it stands, he barely touches the ball so his keeping cool is irrelevant. The harsh truth that some seem unwilling to consider may be that he's just farking lazy for an AFL player in 2012.

Firstly, wasn't comparing Grant as an indivudual to Federa. was drawing a comparison in terms of approach to getting on with the job, the way different people do it. some like the cool calm approach, others need to psyche themselves through carry on.

You don't see Judd, or Dane Swan in many scuffles.
Grant went through some intense boot camp style training last year from memory. IIRC Rocket said he did really well. Some players are just laconic. I don't think he's lazy at all and if he is, BMAC will send him straight to the seconds. Have no doubt about that.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Forward line 2012

Firstly, wasn't comparing Grant as an indivudual to Federa. was drawing a comparison in terms of approach to getting on with the job, the way different people do it. some like the cool calm approach, others need to psyche themselves through carry on.

You don't see Judd, or Dane Swan in many scuffles.
Grant went through some intense boot camp style training last year from memory. IIRC Rocket said he did really well. Some players are just laconic. I don't think he's lazy at all and if he is, BMAC will send him straight to the seconds. Have no doubt about that.

As Rocket did in 2011.

[Eastdog]

Re: Forward line 2012

Jarrad Grant is still very young and I think he has as we have said many many times potential but I think when it comes to the physical situations in footy its hard for him as he is quite skinny. I remember there was a game where he kicked 6 goals which one was that again - He has always struggled in the big matches for us.

[Before I Die]

Re: Forward line 2012

Swan had tackled Grant and in the process of getting up Swan pushed Grant to the ground in the manner of you stay down there, Grant just got up expressionless as if it ment nothing. I would have like Grant to have gone and put Swan on his arse even if it gave away the free kick.
Players shouldn't except that intimidation and if we do we have no hope of winning a final with these types of players.

I disagree 100% Players put in those little niggles to win retaliation free kicks and/or to put a player off his game by distracting him. Why should Grant let Shaw get under his skin? Ignoring him is the best response.

Not being intimidated means not responding to the attempted intimidation and not allowing it to affect your game. Brereton's response is not about "not accepting intimidation", it is about winning the pissing competition. This was the man who was rubbed out for seven weeks for standing on the head of a former team mate in a pre-season practice match.

[Hotdog60]

Re: Forward line 2012

I disagree 100% Players put in those little niggles to win retaliation free kicks and/or to put a player off his game by distracting him. Why should Grant let Shaw get under his skin? Ignoring him is the best response.

Not being intimidated means not responding to the attempted intimidation and not allowing it to affect your game. Brereton's response is not about "not accepting intimidation", it is about winning the pissing competition. This was the man who was rubbed out for seven weeks for standing on the head of a former team mate in a pre-season practice match.

I understand were your coming from and I would have no problem with that if Grant not long after had kick a couple of goals on him, but he didn't as I do believe the best response is on the scoreboard. Do you think when some teams come up against us they have a bit of a chuckle because they know physically they have it over us.

Would you be happy if he lined Shaw up at the next opportunity for a fair tackle and then do the same action as Shaw did at the end of it, I think its more a case I don't like other teams thinking we are the wimps of the completion. At this point in time we not dangerous enough and it looks like some of our players are not tough enough.

I don't support thuggish but I don't like us being intimidated either. Sorry I'm a bit old school.

[Mofra]

Re: Forward line 2012

Have my doubt on Grant at ff when he doesn't like any contact at all and FFs are niggled all the time. The oppositions have worked him out here.

I think Grant would be quite effective as a FP/Crumbing type - he has the speed and agility, and FPs can pop up with a couple of freakish efforts per game, chase hard when they don't have the ball, and be quite effective. Nobody expects a FP type to be physical, and I don't think Grant ever will be.

I'd be interested to read how many of his goals over the past two or three seasons are from running into goal - seems like more than one would expect from a leading/marking forward.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Forward line 2012

I understand were your coming from and I would have no problem with that if Grant not long after had kick a couple of goals on him, but he didn't as I do believe the best response is on the scoreboard. Do you think when some teams come up against us they have a bit of a chuckle because they know physically they have it over us.

Would you be happy if he lined Shaw up at the next opportunity for a fair tackle and then do the same action as Shaw did at the end of it, I think its more a case I don't like other teams thinking we are the wimps of the completion. At this point in time we not dangerous enough and it looks like some of our players are not tough enough.

I don't support thuggish but I don't like us being intimidated either. Sorry I'm a bit old school.

Add to all your valid points the fact that it was the PRE-SEASON comp. So what if he gave a free-kick away? It was a mickey mouse game. Do you think Shaw cared if he gave a free kick away? Grant had the perfect opportunity to stand up and be counted and make his presence felt and put a stamp on his 2012 season on national TV, and he pissed it away the same way he does every year: by being 'cool' and laconic and not caring.

We had another player like that: Andrejs Everitt. The funny thing is that Andrejs actually showed a bit more fight at times, but I think we're more loathe to make a call on Grant because he was a no.5 pick and the possibility that we threw a top 5 pick away scares us too much to consider it.

[Mofra]

Re: Forward line 2012

We had another player like that: Andrejs Everitt. The funny thing is that Andrejs actually showed a bit more fight at times, but I think we're more loathe to make a call on Grant because he was a no.5 pick and the possibility that we threw a top 5 pick away scares us too much to consider it.

I don't think the draft pick number really matters once a kid has joined the club - they're judged on output (current and potential) and that is what frustrates supporters so much about Grant - the potential is so high.

Unlike Andrejs, we know Grant is a forward and has a turn of speed that can make him dangerous - the trick is to get him to use it more often, not try and "find a position" for him.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Forward line 2012

I don't think the draft pick number really matters once a kid has joined the club - they're judged on output (current and potential) and that is what frustrates supporters so much about Grant - the potential is so high.

Unlike Andrejs, we know Grant is a forward and has a turn of speed that can make him dangerous - the trick is to get him to use it more often, not try and "find a position" for him.

Agree with all of the above (especially your last point), but I think the draft number definitely matters to fans (and to recruiters who have a lot riding on their early picks). There is no doubt Wallis and, say, Howard, get picked on more than, say, Schofield, Tutt or Skinner ever does, despite their relative development all being there or thereabouts (minus Schofield for obvious reasons). If Grant was a rookie pick, we'd be all commenting on his potential and drooling over his speed and one 6 goal game, but as a no.5 pick, that's simply not good enough.

Same goes with someone like Williams: Markovic gets a pass because he's a low draft pick, Tom gets crucified because he's not what we'd expect from a no.6 pick, despite both of them being pretty much limited, middling defenders who do good things from time to time. Farran Ray suffered from that curse also. I also read somewhere a comment about Will being a first round pick and not quite up to standard for one. Also, Andrejs got cut despite playing a hell of a lot more games than Mulligan, partly because he was so disappointing for a no.11 pick, and nothing is expected from Mulligan. Ditto Higgins (disappointing for a no.11 pick) compared to, say, Hooper (nothing expected from a rookie, so anything he does tends to be 'good'), although Higgins has definitely had a higher output over his career.

This is less true for older players, but it still applies sometimes: Griff performs as well as Boydy over a season but gets bagged because he doesn't win enough games off his own boot or is a 'superstar' (as expected of a no.3 pick) but Boydy gets a pass on his disposal because he's come from nowhere (his former 'rookie' status is always mentioned when he is profiled), works his arse off and been a bonus.

Mind you, I agree with all that reasoning -- higher draft picks (and therefore the right of first refusal on a far bigger pool of players) are much, much more valuable commodities than lower draft picks, so more SHOULD be expected from players picked with them.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Forward line 2012

Add to all your valid points the fact that it was the PRE-SEASON comp. So what if he gave a free-kick away? It was a mickey mouse game. Do you think Shaw cared if he gave a free kick away? Grant had the perfect opportunity to stand up and be counted and make his presence felt and put a stamp on his 2012 season on national TV, and he pissed it away the same way he does every year: by being 'cool' and laconic and not caring.

We had another player like that: Andrejs Everitt. The funny thing is that Andrejs actually showed a bit more fight at times, but I think we're more loathe to make a call on Grant because he was a no.5 pick and the possibility that we threw a top 5 pick away scares us too much to consider it.

How does cool and laconic = not caring?
I reckon you are being a bit hard on the lad over one incident. Comparing him to Everitt might...be... a little overly negative? He has more upsides than Spider Jnr did. Pace, marking ability, youth for starters.

First game of the preseason, let alone regular season. See how he goes over the journey of 2012 eh?

In terms of our forward line I think we are in a transition phase and it's always a rough time. expect a good 6 months to a year before things start to settle.