Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

[SonofScray]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

But we were sliding back at an alarming rate and basically held up by the likes of Barry Hall. We are paying for the short term decisions over the last 3 years. Keeping Eagleton and Hahn on well part their use-by dates. Keeping Akermanis on one season too many. Trading for Sherman wasn't a good decision then and certainly isn't now. Promoting Mulligan and Hooper who weren't ready and alienating some youngsters and not tying up some other talented youngsters with contracts at the appropriate time are all contributing to where we are now.

We can continue to point the finger at McCartney and Fantasia but I reckon Eade is being made up to be more of a messiah than he really was. He isn't being blamed even in part for leaving us with a flat footed playing list and some significant gaps in recent draft crops.

The rebuild and faith that everyone seems to have in the draft picks etc that accompany a crap season, they seem to be nullified by some of the thing you've highlighted. We've already fluffed some of the work that goes into a rebuild.

We'll get picks 5 and 6, which could easily be another Walsh. Or two! I have no faith in the concept of success in footy being cyclical and even if it is, the hamster wheel we are currently on is pointed towards shit creek.

When we do, if we do, get up and about again, no doubt we'll rue the selections of Sherman and DJ. They are this cycle's Baird and Basset.

[Bornadog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

But we were sliding back at an alarming rate and basically held up by the likes of Barry Hall. We are paying for the short term decisions over the last 3 years. Keeping Eagleton and Hahn on well part their use-by dates. Keeping Akermanis on one season too many. Trading for Sherman wasn't a good decision then and certainly isn't now. Promoting Mulligan and Hooper who weren't ready and alienating some youngsters and not tying up some other talented youngsters with contracts at the appropriate time are all contributing to where we are now.

We can continue to point the finger at McCartney and Fantasia but I reckon Eade is being made up to be more of a messiah than he really was. He isn't being blamed even in part for leaving us with a flat footed playing list and some significant gaps in recent draft crops.

I don't think anyone is painting Eade as more of a messiah than he really was . Losing Harbrow and Ward has really cost us dearly which would have made a difference to your above statement. Yes we held on to some players longer than we should have (inhindsight), but you know what, it was worth it to go for the chance at a flag. Our biggest errors have been to take Geelong and Sydney discards that are just not up to it and we are continuing to play them. What we should have done is cut deeper at the end of 2011, which would help us in the years beyond 2012.

Surely you must agree that Macca has been making some strange selection criteria. Playing so many rucks in the one team, sticking an all Australian HBF in Murphy into a negating role week after week, which just doesn't work, dropping Grant for 4 weeks and he doesn't even play at VFL level, trying to make guys into in and under types when they clearly cannot play that role, not making any moves during a match, like Markovic on Pav and he kicks 6 goals. There are many more strange selections, like Gilbee in and Hargrave out?

I am still scratching my head, as its all a very big mystery.

[Eastdog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

I don't think anyone is painting Eade as more of a messiah than he really was . Losing Harbrow and Ward has really cost us dearly which would have made a difference to your above statement. Yes we held on to some players longer than we should have (inhindsight), but you know what, it was worth it to go for the chance at a flag. Our biggest errors have been to take Geelong and Sydney discards that are just not up to it and we are continuing to play them. What we should have done is cut deeper at the end of 2011, which would help us in the years beyond 2012.

Surely you must agree that Macca has been making some strange selection criteria. Playing so many rucks in the one team, sticking an all Australian HBF in Murphy into a negating role week after week, which just doesn't work, dropping Grant for 4 weeks and he doesn't even play at VFL level, trying to make guys into in and under types when they clearly cannot play that role, not making any moves during a match, like Markovic on Pav and he kicks 6 goals. There are many more strange selections, like Gilbee in and Hargrave out?

I am still scratching my head, as its all a very big mystery.

Thinking about Harbrow and Ward were important players in our team and now I wish they were still in the team today. They left and thats that.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

I think we would have struggled this year regardless of who we had at the helm. The problem as I see it, is the list is just too unbalanced and lacking class and experience in the areas it is needed most. Smacking the coach for not producing instant success isn't fair in my view. But, as a member I want some signs that things will eventually improve.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Don't want to stir the pot, but a girl I work with has just checked in on Facebook at CQ Nightclub, with Tory Dickson (yes, she does actually know him!)...on the turps whilst injured??? Tsk Tsk... naughty boy.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

I think we would have struggled this year regardless of who we had at the helm. The problem as I see it, is the list is just too unbalanced and lacking class and experience in the areas it is needed most. Smacking the coach for not producing instant success isn't fair in my view. But, as a member I want some signs that things will eventually improve.

Agree with this. The recycled types have let's be honest had a minimal impact .
DJ not up to it ( would the cats trade him, if he was?)
Sherman ( very ordinary in an ordinary team)
Austin ( been okay but no world beater)
Vezspremi ( has no tank) personally don't reckon he'll get there
I just hope we use the draft exclusively and don't trade for fringe players and just bring in our own.The list is so lopsided it's Rediculous, Clayton has to wear some blame as does Rocket for his bringing in fringe stop gap players

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Not tanking, just a poor team.

I wasn't saying this in the first half, but during the second half with the lack of coaching tactics and moves I fail to see any other reason to explain the lost tonight.

[Mantis]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

I get where you are coming from but we were pretty bad last year and I never read the same level of frustration from you as you are now sharing.

We have been consistently bad over the last 6 or 8 weeks and the level of frustration has been building... At least last year we played some reasonable footy, the last 2 months has been horrible.

The signs were all there last year mind you but we were all kidding ourselves if we thought a new coach was going to get us back on track in one season. He inherited a train wreck and was never going to fix it in one season.

Agree that it was going to take time, but we are getting worse....

[Maddog37]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Don't want to stir the pot, but a girl I work with has just checked in on Facebook at CQ Nightclub, with Tory Dickson (yes, she does actually know him!)...on the turps whilst injured??? Tsk Tsk... naughty boy.

Doesn't necessarily mean he is drinking.

[Mantis]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

We are a bottom 4 team, nothing to be excited about but something to be realistic about.

I think 17 games is a bit early to be expecting significant improvements. Last year was just the start of a downhill slope (the J curve, Ghost Dog was calling it), and Hall saved us from looking worse than we were. This year there is more responsibility being placed on our young talls, who are still not up to it. Skill level and speed are not things that Macca can change, they are list management decisions which he will (hopefully) make at year's end.

I'm not expecting significant improvement... I just want some improvement.... And I'm not seeing any.

As far as the terrible state our list is in, I can't see any way that Macca is to blame for that. If the list is still in bad shape in 2-3 years, I'll be right behind you in the line to criticise him.

I'm not saying Macca is responsible... but someone is and he/ they need to be held accountable... Perhaps Eade was responsible and he paid the price, but surely others have had a hand at creating what we have now.

Re: our brand of footy, I think that it comes down to our list and the fact that we don't have speed or skill. With the way the current game is played, you can only do so much with a slow unskilled outfit, exacerbated by our youth. Macca is working on the factors he can work on...contested ball, developing decision making and trying to effectively manage the high number of young talls on our list.

How is that going for him?... We were ok at contested footy early on, but it's dropped away alarmingly.

Our decision making is safety first which makes for boring viewing.

All of our young talls have stagnated or gone backwards... Maybe we will see the benefits of his actions in years to come, but at the moment I'm disheartened by the lack of development these players have made.

Is he flawless? No, of course not. He is 17 games into his coaching career. But I'm content with job he is doing.

That's fine.... but I'm very disappointed with our last 6 weeks... which looks like rolling on into the next 6.

[GVGjr]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Surely you must agree that Macca has been making some strange selection criteria. Playing so many rucks in the one team, sticking an all Australian HBF in Murphy into a negating role week after week, which just doesn't work, dropping Grant for 4 weeks and he doesn't even play at VFL level, trying to make guys into in and under types when they clearly cannot play that role, not making any moves during a match, like Markovic on Pav and he kicks 6 goals. There are many more strange selections, like Gilbee in and Hargrave out?

I am still scratching my head, as its all a very big mystery.

He certainly is but no more than Eade did but of course Eade never received the same level of focus than McCartney is now receiving.

McCartney didn't build this list and has inherited a substantially worse playing list that Eade did in his first season.

As supporters we should be annoyed with the way we are playing and at some of the errors at the selection table but then again we should have been annoyed last year and probably should have been aware of what was going on the year before that.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

The fact is we got rid of a good coach for a crap one.

[Mantis]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

But we were sliding back at an alarming rate and basically held up by the likes of Barry Hall. We are paying for the short term decisions over the last 3 years. Keeping Eagleton and Hahn on well part their use-by dates. Keeping Akermanis on one season too many. Trading for Sherman wasn't a good decision then and certainly isn't now. Promoting Mulligan and Hooper who weren't ready and alienating some youngsters and not tying up some other talented youngsters with contracts at the appropriate time are all contributing to where we are now.

Agree with some of that, but which youngsters were/ have been alienated?

And even if we were to tip out some or all of the players mentioned I can't see how you could have any faith that we would have recruited the type of players to improve our list going on our recent drafting efforts.

We can continue to point the finger at McCartney and Fantasia but I reckon Eade is being made up to be more of a messiah than he really was. He isn't being blamed even in part for leaving us with a flat footed playing list and some significant gaps in recent draft crops.

So the former coach should be held accountable for this? I thought drafting is the responsibilty of our recruiting staff?

[ReLoad]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

In reality, even if we played Shaggy, how is that going to help our long term future? Shaggy is spent a as footballer, so why not put more games into a kid like Pearce.

What we are lacking is something which has helped us through the dark times in the past, that is a fully fledged superstar. When things were going poorly in the 90's we had Turtle. in the 00's we had Johnno.
Who the hell have we got now? nobody. no inspirational young kid who you can tell will be a superstar. nobody to be the face of the team, nobody who each kid wants to put his number on the back of his footy jumper.

Our Salary cap should be at it lowest ebb at the end of next year (when certain contracts run out, cooney, gia, higgins etc) who are on money way above the odds. We need to go shopping and spend some massive coin. Lets go for a Patton or Cameron from GWS for example, we need to build a side around a superstar, and heaven knows we don't have one on our list.

Right now, Macca has inherited a bunch of turnips and no matter what he did last night even if we won were still a rubbish list.

Howard is a spud, he's another Higgins in the making, he has no special "trick" I.e a killer kick, or a sidestep, or anything of that nature. There was a great post comparing him to Gilbee at the same stage in his career, where his stats stack up, the difference is, that we could see the kick that Gilbee had on him, whereas Howard is an old mother hubbard in the tricks department.

Anyway there is a lot to be said about our current on field situation, but personally I think the coach is not to blame, he needs time. - His assistants on the other hand, that's a different matter.

[KT31]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

ACtually good to hear McCartney acknowledge in the post game interview on TV that our young midfielders need to learn how to read the outside play better from ruck contests - in response to the question as to why we were not able to leverage the total dominance from Minson's ruckwork.
.

Did he acknowledge our coaching staff need to learn a fair bit as well ?
Himself included.