Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

[Guido]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

Ward came to us with a year to run on his contract asking for an extension. We offered him $300K, he wanted closer to $400K.

A year later we were begging him to stay for way more than $400K.

If Clayton was handling that deal Ward wouldn't even have got to speak with GWS.

That offer of ours was in JUNE of 2011, and might not have even been $300K.

Direct from Paul Connors in June, when GWS was offering between $750K-$800K p.a.:


Asked if the difference was as much as $400,000 a season, Connors replied: "More. (Their offers) are outrageous.

"If Callan Ward does want to stay at the Dogs, and I hope he does, for guys like him the quantum is huge.

"I can't even believe we're debating that players probably will stay at their clubs even though there's a $500,000 per annum difference. It wouldn't happen in rugby league, but it happens in ... AFL."


Which would indicate that our offer at the time (June 2011, when the whips were cracking and he was genuinely weighing up his options) was between $250K-$300K.

The reality is that the first offer before GWS even had a look in (September 2010 .. y'know, after being the best player on the ground in a prelim at the age of 20) was most likely considerably less than this. Around $250K for the one clear cut elite 22 and under player on the list. And we're weighing up whether to keep the football manager who was overseeing this? When $100k p.a. could have closed the door on GWS altogether and proved the difference between the club keeping it's future captain for life, I think it's fair to ask if the football manager is competent.

I've said it before, given that the salary cap will be well over $11mil by the time his contract expires and that he's already among the top 50 players in the comp (pushing towards top 20), a 4 year/$500Kp.a. contract for Callan Ward would have been seen as one of best value contracts on our list - but the thing is, before the window for GWS legally opened, Ward probably would have signed that contact for $370K-$380K p.a, making it one of the biggest bargains in the league.

One last Fantasia bash to finish off with: a week before Ward gave the club notice of his decision, and when we were coming in with our last offer, an almost direct quote from Fantasia was: "yes, the offer from GWS is around 3, 4 or 5 years, somewhere around there". Over a year into negotiations, and he still has NFI on what he's competing with.

How is this guy employed anywhere, let alone running the football department of a professional sporting club? Listen to his press conferences, listen to his interviews, and listen carefully, if you've got a good grasp of the game and management, there will be at least one "wtf?" moment, absolutely guarantee it.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

Someone has to be accountable for the atrocity that was the 2012 season.

James Fantasia has been at the club for 5 years and what has he achieved? Nothing.

The objective of the Football Dept head is to deliver a premiership. The head of that dept has that responsibility. The responsibilities include, but are not limited to, managing the list & appointing coaches. I would argue we have the worst list in the comp going forward and on current viewing perhaps the most inept coaching dept. The Football Dept has to be accountable for this mess. Fantasia is responsible for this. His 5 years of mismanagement has led us to the plight we are in.

It is time for James Fantasia to go.

If Simon Garlick and David Smorgon don't have the balls to do something about it then they should go as well.

I go to a number of the Cub's AGM's and I have seen very little action from the floor when it is time to asking questions. I hope that you Doc, and the others who agree with you, attend our next AGM and speak up. That is the correct way to do things rather than just bleat on a forum. I will be going to the next one so will be interested to see who on this forum has the balls to do something positive.

[Mofra]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

I've said it before, given that the salary cap will be well over $11mil by the time his contract expires and that he's already among the top 50 players in the comp (pushing towards top 20), a 4 year/$500Kp.a. contract for Callan Ward would have been seen as one of best value contracts on our list - but the thing is, before the window for GWS legally opened, Ward probably would have signed that contact for $370K-$380K p.a, making it one of the biggest bargains in the league.

One last Fantasia bash to finish off with: a week before Ward gave the club notice of his decision, and when we were coming in with our last offer, an almost direct quote from Fantasia was: "yes, the offer from GWS is around 3, 4 or 5 years, somewhere around there". Over a year into negotiations, and he still has NFI on what he's competing with.

Nailed it - Ward was willing to stay for less money, but the difference was too huge in the end.

Note Ablett, during a part of Geelong's dominance, was on a 5 year deal of around $250k (signed when he was a promising, if inconsistent HFF) meaning Geelong had the best player in the league playing for them for less than the average AFL wage of circa $300k.

That is a stark difference in list management between us and the top teams - forget football department spend, if we can't get list management right we are no hope, and it is something we take years to recove from.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

I go to a number of the Cub's AGM's and I have seen very little action from the floor when it is time to asking questions. I hope that you Doc, and the others who agree with you, attend our next AGM and speak up. That is the correct way to do things rather than just bleat on a forum. I will be going to the next one so will be interested to see who on this forum has the balls to do something positive.

Good points raised here.

[stefoid]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

Let us know how the AGM goes B4L.
cheers

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

Let us know how the AGM goes B4L.
cheers

Thanks Stef will do. I'm still waiting to find out when it will be. Anyone that goes gets an opportunity to ask "any question" they want. So hopefully some of the supporters who are not happy with certain employees of the Club will do something positive and vent their feelings to the Board rather than just on this forum.It does get boring reading the same comments over and over again by the same posters.

[Guido]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

Thanks Stef will do. I'm still waiting to find out when it will be. Anyone that goes gets an opportunity to ask "any question" they want. So hopefully some of the supporters who are not happy with certain employees of the Club will do something positive and vent their feelings to the Board rather than just on this forum.It does get boring reading the same comments over and over again by the same posters.

What kind of quality organisation leaves it to shareholders to bring these issues to their attention at an AGM before they take action? They should have the processes in place to know exactly who is performing and who isn't, what mistakes have been made and who is accountable for them.

As with any AGM, any question of substance will be masterfully deflected, or subtly misconstrued to allow the speaker to get out an answer that is "on message". Most of the key figures in this organisation are master politicians who can spin it with the best of them, Smorgon, Garlick, Fantasia ... just look at any of their pressers. It is a skill that is actually absolutely necessary in a PR sense, however infuriating when you're looking for real analysis and genuine solutions.

Besides, anything of this nature at an AGM will come across as "venting from disgruntled fans". And other than the 300 people there, no-one will hear about the questions or the answers.

And I'd argue that sporting organisations can be very well served by discussion forums such as this - this kind of (free) analysis, bringing together of ideas (often by people more passionate about the organisation than the people that work within it), issues brought to light, outstanding points being made ... granted, it sometimes can be needle in a haystack stuff, but it is a resource which should be cultivated and harnessed, and I'd argue is 100 times more in depth on issues such as this than anything you'll get in a 1 minute question and 2 minute answer at an AGM.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

What kind of quality organisation leaves it to shareholders to bring these issues to their attention at an AGM before they take action? They should have the processes in place to know exactly who is performing and who isn't, what mistakes have been made and who is accountable for them.

As with any AGM, any question of substance will be masterfully deflected, or subtly misconstrued to allow the speaker to get out an answer that is "on message". Most of the key figures in this organisation are master politicians who can spin it with the best of them, Smorgon, Garlick, Fantasia ... just look at any of their pressers. It is a skill that is actually absolutely necessary in a PR sense, however infuriating when you're looking for real analysis and genuine solutions.

Besides, anything of this nature at an AGM will come across as "venting from disgruntled fans". And other than the 300 people there, no-one will hear about the questions or the answers.

And I'd argue that sporting organisations can be very well served by discussion forums such as this - this kind of (free) analysis, bringing together of ideas (often by people more passionate about the organisation than the people that work within it), issues brought to light, outstanding points being made ... granted, it sometimes can be needle in a haystack stuff, but it is a resource which should be cultivated and harnessed, and I'd argue is 100 times more in depth on issues such as this than anything you'll get in a 1 minute question and 2 minute answer at an AGM.

Don't agree. If you are as passionate as you infer make the effort to go to the AGM and ask a few questions. Don't give weak reasons why you shouldn't.

[LongWait]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

What kind of quality organisation leaves it to shareholders to bring these issues to their attention at an AGM before they take action? They should have the processes in place to know exactly who is performing and who isn't, what mistakes have been made and who is accountable for them.

As with any AGM, any question of substance will be masterfully deflected, or subtly misconstrued to allow the speaker to get out an answer that is "on message". Most of the key figures in this organisation are master politicians who can spin it with the best of them, Smorgon, Garlick, Fantasia ... just look at any of their pressers. It is a skill that is actually absolutely necessary in a PR sense, however infuriating when you're looking for real analysis and genuine solutions.

Besides, anything of this nature at an AGM will come across as "venting from disgruntled fans". And other than the 300 people there, no-one will hear about the questions or the answers.

And I'd argue that sporting organisations can be very well served by discussion forums such as this - this kind of (free) analysis, bringing together of ideas (often by people more passionate about the organisation than the people that work within it), issues brought to light, outstanding points being made ... granted, it sometimes can be needle in a haystack stuff, but it is a resource which should be cultivated and harnessed, and I'd argue is 100 times more in depth on issues such as this than anything you'll get in a 1 minute question and 2 minute answer at an AGM.

Why don't you write a letter to the CEO or to the Board? Better still, stand for the Board.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

Fanta should go and Johno for president.

[Topdog]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

By the way, might be time to change your sig. It hurts every time I read it.

I have sigs off for viewing. Had no idea it still said that. Sorry to all.

[Topdog]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

Clayton is more to blame for our current list / drafting more so than Dalrymple.

Fantasia is to blame hence this thread!

[Topdog]

Re: Bring Me Fantasia's Head.

One last Fantasia bash to finish off with: a week before Ward gave the club notice of his decision, and when we were coming in with our last offer, an almost direct quote from Fantasia was: "yes, the offer from GWS is around 3, 4 or 5 years, somewhere around there". Over a year into negotiations, and he still has NFI on what he's competing with.

How is this guy employed anywhere, let alone running the football department of a professional sporting club? Listen to his press conferences, listen to his interviews, and listen carefully, if you've got a good grasp of the game and management, there will be at least one "wtf?" moment, absolutely guarantee it.

Sums it up perfectly for me. No idea how he still has a job with us.