Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Or possibly it would prove that you haven't been looking closely enough.

Should we bring microscopes? Telescopes? Infra red?

I mean it's not obviously there? Is it?
After all these years how often has he been named in the best?
How often has he kicked a bag of goals?

What are we supposed to be seeing?

Please tell me. I'd love to see it.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Should we bring microscopes? Telescopes? Infra red?

I mean it's not obviously there? Is it?
After all these years how often has he been named in the best?
How often has he kicked a bag of goals?

What are we supposed to be seeing?

Please tell me. I'd love to see it.

Oh yes! It's is totally realistic for a kid to put on 20 kg or whatever in their first year, start kicking bags of goals, get named in the bests and maybe win us a premiership too? Never mind the operations to put bits of bone in his shoulders to stop them breaking. Very realistic.

Big guys take longer. Will Minson case in point. Put up your hands all posters who wanted him traded a few years ago?

If Ash Hansen, Shannon Grant, BMac , Emma Quayle, and others think it was worth the risk picking him, and persisting with Ayce, it's fine with me, because I don't watch him at training, and it's very hard to judge his performance when the inside 50s are so crap.
When insides have been ok, he's been good too ( Brisbane )

[jeemak]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Emma Quayle thought we did quite well, and labelled him unique:

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-2008-afl-draft-how-your-club-fared-20091124-j84q.html

Doesn't mean he'll make it of course, though if we've had our hand forced by St Kilda to take him at pick 14 it probably means some people out there thought he wasn't a run of the mill tall prospect in 2008.

I find it a bit intriguing, the lack of patience with Cordy. He's put on 20-25kg's since the end of 2008, and missed his first two seasons with wrecked shoulders. Now he's playing in a developing side with no system and we're wondering why he's not as developed as we thought he might be. We acknowledge that most players take 50-70 games to really find their feet in this competition, and talls take longer, yet we're not prepared to be patient and let Cordy develop.

We've also got calls for Ed Barlow to be playing instead of him as a utility/second ruck, even though Barlow was as good as he was going to get, when he wasn't very good when he played with us anyway. Where does the line get drawn between playing players to be marginally more competitive as a team, but just as likely to lose and trying to develop a structure? It's like the world has gone a little bonkers, to be frank.

[Bornadog]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

The only similarity between Kouta and Ayce Cordy is that they both live in Australia.

At the minute Ayce simply isn't living up to his name; he is known around our circles as the four of spades.

Should we bring microscopes? Telescopes? Infra red?

I mean it's not obviously there? Is it?
After all these years how often has he been named in the best?
How often has he kicked a bag of goals?

What are we supposed to be seeing?

Please tell me. I'd love to see it.

Well as I said previously, 17 games is too early for a big man. Yes he has been around the club 4 odd years but has also had some bad injuries.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Oh yes! It's is totally realistic for a kid to put on 20 kg or whatever in their first year, start kicking bags of goals, get named in the bests and maybe win us a premiership too? Never mind the operations to put bits of bone in his shoulders to stop them breaking. Very realistic.

Big guys take longer. Will Minson case in point. Put up your hands all posters who wanted him traded a few years ago?

If Ash Hansen, Shannon Grant, BMac , Emma Quayle, and others think it was worth the risk picking him, and persisting with Ayce, it's fine with me, because I don't watch him at training, and it's very hard to judge his performance when the inside 50s are so crap.
When insides have been ok, he's been good too ( Brisbane )

Some very good points GD. I've been a Will fan since he came to the club but I actually thought he was treated harshly during the Eade era. He would be close to our most solid player and most consistent performer over the last 18 months. I do understand supporters impatience with Cordy but I'm prepared to wait another 22 games at least.

Well as I said previously, 17 games is too early for a big man. Yes he has been around the club 4 odd years but has also had some bad injuries.

17 games says it all, the guy is a giant, it will happen.

[kruder]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

I have more faith in Tutt making it as an AFL player than Howard. He still has a long way to go but the renewed defensive intent coupled with his pace and attacking instincts give him some chance of making it.

I think Dalrymple has done some good things at the ND and rookie drafts since he took over from Clayton, but his first ND was an absolute disaster and has set the timing of our rebuild back by 12 months as a result.

I think all ND players selected last year will be in our next finals team which would be a fair effort indeed.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

I haven't seen anything in the 4 or 5 years I've seen him play that's makes me say wow this guy has talent. If Ayce becomes a good player (and he may well do), to me it proves if a club is prepared to put 6 or 7 years of full time training and coaching into a player then pretty much any tall skinny athlete out of the TAC cup could make it so long as they're prepared to put in. The only difference is Cordy was a father son so was given the opportunity others may not have been.

I am sure Cordy would have been drafted if he didn't come to us via father/son. St.Kilda for one bidded for him.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Every time they harp on about Howard's kicking skills, I stop what I'm doing and watch him. Then he shanks it! Anyone else experience this?

[Cyberdoggie]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Every time they harp on about Howard's kicking skills, I stop what I'm doing and watch him. Then he shanks it! Anyone else experience this?

A lot of Howards problems are in his head.

Mentally he's a bit fragile, seems to cough it up and key moments all the time. Pressure kicks or on the end of a run. Just shows that when he gets worried or thinks about it too much he makes mistakes. May be a confidence thing to some extent but he's been playing this way since he was drafted.

[EasternWest]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Kouta-like ground level skills and athleticism from a 200cm player

Which is great. But I want my 200 cm guys to be able to compete in the air and take a mark.

Skills below his knees are a bonus, but shouldn't in any way be the gauge by which Ayce is measured.

Or possibly it would prove that you haven't been looking closely enough.

Well what have you seen in Ayce that would suggest Greystache hasn't been looking closely enough ?

[Mofra]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

I find it a bit intriguing, the lack of patience with Cordy. He's put on 20-25kg's since the end of 2008, and missed his first two seasons with wrecked shoulders. Now he's playing in a developing side with no system and we're wondering why he's not as developed as we thought he might be. We acknowledge that most players take 50-70 games to really find their feet in this competition, and talls take longer, yet we're not prepared to be patient and let Cordy develop.

Bingo.

For so long we've had calls of "just stick with a promising young tall and develop them".
Now we're too impatient to develop them when we've got one who has shown he is an elite contested mark (Jones) and another who has overcome so many obstacles just to get on the paddock it's a minor miracle he's out there at all (Cordy).

The facts is, if we had anyone better than either of the two of them, they would play. Cordy has already shown he's ahead of Campbell for me as R2 and he compares similarly to other 197cm+ ruck/forwards at similar levels of experience.

I'd hate to have read the posts about a young Peter Foster, Lindsay Gilbee or Daniel Cross as they were establishing themselves, and why the hell would you recruit a 23 year old undersized KPP* that had only just made it to VFL level?


* Named Dale Morris

[The Underdog]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Dogs just tweeted Gia out 2 weeks with bruised scapula. Timing may be um, convenient.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Should we bring microscopes? Telescopes? Infra red?

I mean it's not obviously there? Is it?
After all these years how often has he been named in the best?
How often has he kicked a bag of goals?

What are we supposed to be seeing?

Please tell me. I'd love to see it.

This article is from May 19 2012. Cordy has effectively had about a year doing proper AFL preparation and for a tall that's two parts of no time at all. Its a shame he is the best available we have as I'd love to see him do this year in the VFL to get his confidence and fundamentals back but all things considered I think he's on track for my tagline. Happy to re-evaluate after 75 games.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/shouldering-a-heavy-burden-20120518-1yw64.html

I get it doesn't specifically answer your question but might put some context around it. As a junior (and I saw him play on multiple occassions) he was a good mark, agile with great groundwork. Give him time - everythings going to be Ayces

[The Pie Man]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Given Cordy & Jones (& Roughead) were all drafted together, it can be useful to compare.

Despite Jones having played more than 20 games more than Ayce due to injuries, it doesn't seem relevant to me...it's about what they're capable of doing..what tools/capabilities they have.

It seems Jones has all the tools - when he presents with repeat efforts like he did vs Richmond, the rewards are there. He looks capable of being a massive contributor if he can reach a consistent level of urgency at the contest. He's quick & can take contested marks. I'm prepared to show more patience here as there seems to be huge upside

From what I've seen to date, I can't say the same about Ayce. I just don't see where further development is going to come from based on what I've seen. Looks a possible no 1 ruck contender in a few years to me.

Just an opinion - one I think more than a few Dogs fans share. FWIW I thought he was ok last week.

[wimberga]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Thought that Stringer may have been a chance to jump back down to VFL this week but now after Gia's injury looks like we will be seeing a bit more of this guy.

For every negative there is a positive. Looking forward to him scaring some defenders s$*#less!