Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

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  • BulldogBelle
    WOOF Member
    • Nov 2006
    • 5284

    #61
    Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

    Bmac has started with the answer in mind and is working backwards with regards to his methodologies around how we are being coached. He knows, (as most of us do) that premierships are won by strong, hard teams who can maintain physical superiority when (as happens regularly in finals) space diminishes, outside runners dry up and each match up and contest must be fought out.

    (Dermie on SEN the other night remarked that in AFL football, if two evenly skilled sides squared off, the team that is most ferocious and brutal will win out every time, and I tend to agree).

    In our Halcyon days under Rocket, our hardness and mental strength was lacking and ultimately, that is why Geelong, St Kilda and Collingwood had our measure over those years 2008-10. They knew that in the games that counted, they would have the dogs covered because they were bigger and more ferocious around the ball.

    BMac was integral at Geelong throughout this period and so knew that when he took on the Dogs job, he'd have to break the embedded patterns/behavbiours in our play (at the time) and make the cornerstone of our football playing philosophy dependant upon characteristic(s) that would deliver the highest probability of winning a flag.

    Unfortunately, there is a trade-off from taking this approach and that is what we are seeing unfold now. I'm sure BMac could have made alterations to our playing style and put a premium on elements that that would see us winning more games in the near term, but this in my opinion would be repeating the sins of the past. If it means we go an extra year or two of development, then so be it... I would rather we enter our next finals series described as a team of "big bodies, hard at the ball and an appetite for mentally/physically challenging games" as opposed to descriptions such as "run and carry, outside flair, x factor, great on the spread".

    Just my opinion, but those kids on our list that are learning to play this way will not only become fearsome players as they approach their mid to late twenties, but they will set a benchmark of 'how we play' and a better pattern of behaviour to the generations of players that come through below them.

    Comment

    • Missing Dog
      WOOF Member
      • Jan 2007
      • 8501

      #62
      Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

      Originally posted by Anthony
      Does Lloyd realise you can't just change a list over night?*





      *unless you drug them up like Essendon
      Lloyd HATES us, so does anyone think he would EVER have anything positive to say about us.. he's an arrogant P$#@k as far as I'm concerned .. CAN'T STAND THE GUY!!!

      Comment

      • GVGjr
        Moderator
        • Nov 2006
        • 45569

        #63
        Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

        Originally posted by OLD SCRAGGer
        Lloyd HATES us, so does anyone think he would EVER have anything positive to say about us.. he's an arrogant P$#@k as far as I'm concerned .. CAN'T STAND THE GUY!!!

        Tell us what you really think?

        On a more serious note I think we need a lot more patience, and pretty much agree with 2PotScreamer's earlier post.
        Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

        Comment

        • Remi Moses
          WOOF Member
          • Jan 2009
          • 14785

          #64
          Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

          Great post 2 pot ^^ that is spot on.
          I'd like a Motlop Jetta Christensen type at the next draft though

          Comment

          • LostDoggy
            WOOF Member
            • Jan 2007
            • 8307

            #65
            Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

            Great post 2pot

            Comment

            • Bornadog
              WOOF Clubhouse Leader
              • Jan 2007
              • 67701

              #66
              Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

              Originally posted by 2PotScreamer
              Bmac has started with the answer in mind and is working backwards with regards to his methodologies around how we are being coached. He knows, (as most of us do) that premierships are won by strong, hard teams who can maintain physical superiority when (as happens regularly in finals) space diminishes, outside runners dry up and each match up and contest must be fought out.

              (Dermie on SEN the other night remarked that in AFL football, if two evenly skilled sides squared off, the team that is most ferocious and brutal will win out every time, and I tend to agree).

              In our Halcyon days under Rocket, our hardness and mental strength was lacking and ultimately, that is why Geelong, St Kilda and Collingwood had our measure over those years 2008-10. They knew that in the games that counted, they would have the dogs covered because they were bigger and more ferocious around the ball.

              BMac was integral at Geelong throughout this period and so knew that when he took on the Dogs job, he'd have to break the embedded patterns/behavbiours in our play (at the time) and make the cornerstone of our football playing philosophy dependant upon characteristic(s) that would deliver the highest probability of winning a flag.

              Unfortunately, there is a trade-off from taking this approach and that is what we are seeing unfold now. I'm sure BMac could have made alterations to our playing style and put a premium on elements that that would see us winning more games in the near term, but this in my opinion would be repeating the sins of the past. If it means we go an extra year or two of development, then so be it... I would rather we enter our next finals series described as a team of "big bodies, hard at the ball and an appetite for mentally/physically challenging games" as opposed to descriptions such as "run and carry, outside flair, x factor, great on the spread".

              Just my opinion, but those kids on our list that are learning to play this way will not only become fearsome players as they approach their mid to late twenties, but they will set a benchmark of 'how we play' and a better pattern of behaviour to the generations of players that come through below them.
              Look I agree with you on 95% of what you said, however, funny thing is under Rocket, we were still one of the top contested ball gatherers. Its not everything in a game of football.

              Its not that easy to say teams were mentally better than we were, we just didn't have the right players up and going in those years. To play in or even win the grand final, a lot of things have to go right for you, such as very few injuries throughout the year, presuming you have the right type of players to cover all roles etc etc.

              We are on the right track, we just can't chuck out the experienced players like Finey says, we have to ease them out while we replace them.
              FFC: Established 1883

              Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

              Comment

              • Maddog37
                WOOF Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 3132

                #67
                Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

                The form of some of the older guys along with injuries is forcing our hand anyway. The tipping point comes when the side looks better without Gia, Boyd etc and personally I feel that is not too far off.

                Comment

                • Bornadog
                  WOOF Clubhouse Leader
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 67701

                  #68
                  Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

                  Originally posted by Maddog37
                  The form of some of the older guys along with injuries is forcing our hand anyway. The tipping point comes when the side looks better without Gia, Boyd etc and personally I feel that is not too far off.
                  We will be in a much better position next year when the likes of Roughead, Jones, Dahl, Libba, Wallis and that era start to get to 50 plus games.
                  FFC: Established 1883

                  Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

                  Comment

                  • Twodogs
                    Moderator
                    • Nov 2006
                    • 27682

                    #69
                    Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

                    Originally posted by SlimPickens
                    Interesting point, we recruited McCrae, Prudden and hunter who are all lefties. I guess Howard is the exception to the rule.

                    Is it more that left footers just look more natural when they kick? The best kick of a football I've seen is Lindsay Gilbee and he was obviously a right footer.
                    For a start you get that extra step because almost every opponent instinctively turns right to try and cover you so you can be fairly confident you have an extra nano-second to balance yourself. The ball drop just seems more natural with the left hand so your balance is better as well. A right footer tends to drop the ball from higher up than a left footer who guides the ball onto their foot.


                    Left footers tend to worse set shots at goal though due to that left to right drift when we kick the ball long from a standing start. I wonder why right footers dont get any drift?
                    They say Burt Lancaster has one, but I don't believe them.

                    Comment

                    • F'scary
                      WOOF Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 4089

                      #70
                      Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

                      Originally posted by Twodogs
                      For a start you get that extra step because almost every opponent instinctively turns right to try and cover you so you can be fairly confident you have an extra nano-second to balance yourself. The ball drop just seems more natural with the left hand so your balance is better as well. A right footer tends to drop the ball from higher up than a left footer who guides the ball onto their foot.


                      Left footers tend to worse set shots at goal though due to that left to right drift when we kick the ball long from a standing start. I wonder why right footers dont get any drift?
                      I agree about the drift but it had its advantages. I was a left footer, dropped the ball to the boot from my left hand but handballed right and bounced the ball right handed. My evading specialty was an instinctive spin to the right, after which I would have to get back onto my left - looked good when it worked (emphasis on the when). The good thing about being a left footer in a majority right footed side was that you always owned a possy on the left side - left BP, HBF, wing, HFF, FP. My coaches liked having a player who could hook it back into the centre corridor from that side of the ground.
                      Officially on the Bus-wagon

                      Comment

                      • jeemak
                        Bulldog Legend
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 22150

                        #71
                        Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

                        Right footers still get drift.

                        Off topic Robot, but I'd be inclined to have right footers on the left and vice versa. It actually makes the change of direction across the field easier IMO.

                        Anyway, great post 2PS. I tend to swing between your view of our time under Eade and BAD's depending on my mood.
                        TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.

                        Comment

                        • F'scary
                          WOOF Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 4089

                          #72
                          Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

                          Originally posted by jeemak
                          Off topic Robot
                          Stiff chedda, I was vibing off on a series of comments, one by a moderator, on left foot drift vs right foot and other stuff. Are you some kind of Nazi or something? Why don't you tick off the moderator in the same thread doing the same thing? What does that say about you?

                          Originally posted by jeemak
                          but I'd be inclined to have right footers on the left and vice versa. It actually makes the change of direction across the field easier IMO.
                          Yeah, typical lack of recognition of diversity on your part.
                          Officially on the Bus-wagon

                          Comment

                          • jeemak
                            Bulldog Legend
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 22150

                            #73
                            Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

                            Originally posted by F'scary
                            Stiff chedda, I was vibing off on a series of comments, one by a moderator, on left foot drift vs right foot and other stuff. Are you some kind of Nazi or something? Why don't you tick off the moderator in the same thread doing the same thing? What does that say about you?

                            Yeah, typical lack of recognition of diversity on your part.
                            Relax mate. Why would I get stuck into a poster for going off topic and then do the same thing? Saying that's more of a recognition (for benefit of other posters) that I understand I'm going off topic.

                            Apologies for any offence however, certainly none intended.
                            Last edited by jeemak; 09-05-2013, 02:51 PM.
                            TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.

                            Comment

                            • Guido
                              WOOF Member
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 136

                              #74
                              Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

                              Originally posted by 2PotScreamer
                              In our Halcyon days under Rocket, our hardness and mental strength was lacking and ultimately, that is why Geelong, St Kilda and Collingwood had our measure over those years 2008-10.
                              IMO they simply had better squads than we did.

                              St Kilda lost 2 games prior to the 2009 prelim, and they arguably had 3 of the top 5, and 5 of the top 15 performing players in the league across those years (Reiwoldt, Goddard, Hayes, Dal Santo, Montagna).

                              That we got anywhere near them in that prelim is a credit to Eade ... and anyone who watches that prelim and says we didn't at least match their hardness was watching a different game. Mental strength to put away those 3/4 shots in the last ... well, maybe that I'll give you. But I've seen the supposedly mentally toughest team in the history of the world miss chances like that in the 2008 Grand Final too.

                              Speaking of which, same probably applies to our list against there's too. Ablett, Scarlett, Chapman, Ling, Corey, Selwood, Bartel, Ottens ... on any given day, any one of these blokes could find themselves in any number of top 5, top 10, top 20 in the comp lists at the time ... we on the other hand probably had 4 or 5 players of that (elite) elite calibre, and at the other end, lack of depth meant we were carrying the likes of Tiller and Callan into finals.

                              Truth is that we were battling against one of the best squads that have been put together in the last 20 years. That's why they beat us when it counted ... and again, we had our chances that could have seen us get up - it's a credit to Eade that we were even in a position to, rather than any kind of negative on his coaching.
                              Last edited by Guido; 09-05-2013, 03:39 PM.

                              Comment

                              • LostDoggy
                                WOOF Member
                                • Jan 2007
                                • 8307

                                #75
                                Re: Lloydy on Footy Classifieds last night

                                100 per cent correct

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