2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

[comrade]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

Then who are the four delistings/trades is the next question? (1) Prudden. (2) Stevens. (3 & 4) Two of Honeychurch/Jong/Hamling/Hrovat if they request trades?

Would happily look at finding a new home for Honeychurch. Just think he's behind too many but deserves a crack at the top level.

Wouldn't net us a high pick, maybe a third rounder at best or an earlier upgrade.

[jeemak]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

I'd happily see HC move along as well. I like him a bit more than most, but as Comrade says, he deserves to be playing at the top level consistently and I can't see him getting that opportunity with us.

Stevens and Jong will be elsewhere next year in all likelihood and as unfortunate as it is, I think Prudden can't justify a senior list spot as others in his range have shown themselves to be a touch more dynamic than he is.

If we get decent offers for Hrovat (where was he today?) and Hamling then we may not have anything to worry about in terms of freeing up list spots.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

Hrovat with an apparent shoulder injury.

[jeemak]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

Hrovat with an apparent shoulder injury.

So he's potentially leaving to receive more opportunity to be injured on another clubs' payroll..........

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

So he's potentially leaving to receive more opportunity to be injured on another clubs' payroll..........

GCS need to replace Jaeger in the rehab group.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

I thought I'd have a look at Hawthorn's trading the year before their four straight Grand Finals:

2011: Traded first rounder (and more) for Gunston
2012: Traded first rounder (and more) for Lake
2013: Traded first rounder (and more) for McEvoy
2014: Traded first rounder for O'Rourke
(2015: Looked to trade first rounder for Carlisle, but couldn't pull it off - 2016 missed Grand Final)

It seems when they thought their window was open they were prepared to trade late first rounders to get needs based players in. Seems a lot of merit in this strategy of trading out late first rounders in your window, and also panning for gold with Hale, Ceglar and free agency with Frawley.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

I thought I'd have a look at Hawthorn's trading the year before their four straight Grand Finals:

2011: Traded first rounder (and more) for Gunston
2012: Traded first rounder (and more) for Lake
2013: Traded first rounder (and more) for McEvoy
2014: Traded first rounder for O'Rourke
(2015: Looked to trade first rounder for Carlisle, but couldn't pull it off - 2016 missed Grand Final)

It seems when they thought their window was open they were prepared to trade late first rounders to get needs based players in. Seems a lot of merit in this strategy of trading out late first rounders in your window, and also panning for gold with Hale, Ceglar and free agency with Frawley.

Their ability to identify and then attract quality players from other teams and then get a reasonable deal done has been outstanding.
They also love to recruit ruckman.

Gibson and Burgoyne have made a significant contribution as well. A true destination club for players looking for on field success.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

Their ability to identify and then attract quality players from other teams and then get a reasonable deal done has been outstanding.
They also love to recruit ruckman.

Gibson and Burgoyne have made a significant contribution as well. A true destination club for players looking for on field success.

In 2011 they had a good core of players 50-100 games, a heap of talented kids, a few good older players, a few great trades already and then a preparedness to trade late first rounders for specific needs (KPF, FB, Ruck, Outside Runner). We seem to have a somewhat similar list structure now as they had then. So the question is do we want to match their strategy in identifying good higher end trades and then have the preparedness to trade out late first rounders for a few years to really attack a sustained run for multiple premierships. You'd have to say yes as we nearly signed Hurley. I'm more and more thinking that there's merit to the Hawthorn strategy and I hope we see trading for higher end need after many years of drafting best available.

[comrade]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

If Goldstein was available, what would he cost us and would we be prepared to pay it.

A ruckman that can run all day, go forward and put it down the throat of Bonti & co is pretty appealing. Would allow Roughy to play the 2nd ruck role and fill gaps where required.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

I'm more and more thinking that there's merit to the Hawthorn strategy and I hope we see trading for higher end need after many years of drafting best available.

I'm going over the same ground when answering a very similar question you posed but I'm still of the belief that trading first round picks, no matter where they are in that round, should only be for either quality players or players that fill specific needs within the list. Players with a long injury profile or a player with marginal talent etc to me is very hard to justify.

Despite Hurley apparently being very interested in coming to us I'm still not a believer that we are currently seen as a destination club by emerging players who are looking to make a move especially compared to clubs like the Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney.

Player managers haven't yet recognised that they should be directing their players toward us.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

If Goldstein was available, what would he cost us and would we be prepared to pay it.

A ruckman that can run all day, go forward and put it down the throat of Bonti & co is pretty appealing. Would allow Roughy to play the 2nd ruck role and fill gaps where required.

Thanks for making me think a little. I hadn't considered a higher end ruckman, Goldy or otherwise. But it'd be interesting to compare our hit out's to advantage this year against a higher end ruckman's stat for the year. If we were at say 40% but the proposed ruck could get us to 60% of better first use, then that's more a lot more impact for Bonts, Libba, Macrae et al. I guess I'd look at the actual numbers to be definitive, but that's a really interesting idea/talking point.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

I'm going over the same ground when answering a very similar question you posed but I'm still of the belief that trading first round picks, no matter where they are in that round, should only be for either quality players or players that fill specific needs within the list. Players with a long injury profile or a player with marginal talent etc to me is very hard to justify.

Despite Hurley apparently being very interested in coming to us I'm still not a believer that we are currently seen as a destination club by emerging players who are looking to make a move especially compared to clubs like the Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney.

Player managers haven't yet recognised that they should be directing their players toward us.

I agree, no Koops or Street types. Allegedly Hurley was close & Cloke picked us nearly 2 months before the trade window opening (for minimum wage & ripping up a $450,000 contract). We landed Suckling last year, and Boyd before (admittedly money was the motivator). So maybe the tide is changing, and our current excitement helps more. So when I say trading it out, it's not trading for trading sake, but the higher end talents who fill a need. I'd think JMac would have a long list of players he'd love to land.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

I'm going over the same ground when answering a very similar question you posed but I'm still of the belief that trading first round picks, no matter where they are in that round, should only be for either quality players or players that fill specific needs within the list. Players with a long injury profile or a player with marginal talent etc to me is very hard to justify.

Despite Hurley apparently being very interested in coming to us I'm still not a believer that we are currently seen as a destination club by emerging players who are looking to make a move especially compared to clubs like the Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney.

Player managers haven't yet recognised that they should be directing their players toward us.

It is a bit of the chicken or egg dilemma.

If we get the high profile free agents it helps us win flags, but winning flags helps get the high profile free agents.

Just need them to think about future results not history of the recent past.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

I agree, no Koops or Street types. Allegedly Hurley was close & Cloke picked us nearly 2 months before the trade window opening (for minimum wage & ripping up a $450,000 contract). We landed Suckling last year, and Boyd before (admittedly money was the motivator). So maybe the tide is changing, and our current excitement helps more. So when I say trading it out, it's not trading for trading sake, but the higher end talents who fill a need. I'd think JMac would have a long list of players he'd love to land.

I'm still not convinced that Hurley was as good as signed and sealed for us before he had a change of heart. I tend to think we were played.
To be honest we got Suckling because we offered a 3 year deal to a player who was often used as a sub by the Hawks in his final season and was on one year deals for a few years. I don't necessarily see his recruitment as a coup.
Going by reports, Cloke has taken the whole 'Cheap as Chips' moniker to a new level given he was desperate for a club like ours to put an arm around him and say welcome after the way Buckley broke his spirit. Credit to him for now seeing the bigger picture.
Boyd wanted back to Melbourne at the same time Griffen wanted out of our club and that also coincided with GWS having salary cap constraints and us having significant room in ours plus lets not underestimate just how desperate we needed a good news story.
Crameri came because we were also prepared to play a fair bit over what Essendon could and because he had a great relationship with B-Mac.

Are we seen as a club of choice by players outside of our club? I'm not convinced yet but I'm hoping that the trade period proves me wrong.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2016 Draft and Trade Strategy

I need to take a break from thinking about Saturday. I'm pumped!

So I thought I'd put together names of uncontracted players and a strategy, based only on rumour and innuendo. Boyd & Smith are playing on from comments on the weekend. So Minson (delisted), Prudden (delisted), Hrovat, Jong, Hamling, Stevens & Honey (needs a home to get more opp's) (7 changes)

So first Stevens, traded for slightly more than we paid. Around pick 30.
(Around) Pick 30 & Jong for pick 21 from GCS. Can't them giving us 14 which is their next highest pick.
Hamling (which Freo fans think is done), Honeychurch (Ross Lyon was at the VFL game watching players, Honey could be a young replacement for Ballantyne's type of role) & pick 36 to Fremantle, Ballantyne & something from Freo to WCE and McKenzie to the dogs.
Hrovat a pick in the 20's, circa 25.
Cloke for pick 59 seems to be in the media strongly enough.

So we have 18, 21, 25, 66 & 70.

Trade pick 18 (or 21) for a player we want. Rumours are circulating about Motlop. So he's in as an example.

So we get Eric McKenzie (big KPD), Travis Cloke (big KPF) and Steven Motlop (speed, goal kicker). Hopefully a free agent of some decency. Leave Dalrymple picks 21, 25 & 70 (with options of Romero or rookie upgrades if he's not thrilled with 70). We know what Dal does with picks in the 20's (McLean, Webb, Dunkley & Collins).

So if they all were to go, it seems a good balance of trading in our window and bringing in young talent.