The draft.

[Missing Dog]

Re: The draft.

The draft isn't deep for good ruckman. Would Myles Bolger from WA be worth a look at?

If he slips to the 2nd round, I think he is worth looking at. I can't see him being a dominate ruckman though, just solid.

Tom Downie is another I think should be considered.

[stefoid]

Re: The draft.

Which ruck can take a big grab? that is the one Id go for. regardless of any other characteristic or deficiency.

These days, long kicks out of defence or long into a forward line are all the go to beat the press/zone/whatever.

Seriously, ruckman who cant take a big grab are a waste of space.

Huddo barely made up for his marking deficiencies with AFL-best scrapping for the ball at stoppages. Minson ...?

Fortunately Roughy looks capable of pulling down big marks.

Cordy? How is his marking ability?

also - Tom Hill. OldSchool mentioned he is 199cm and could play ruck. I presume as a possible forward prospect he can also take a grab?

I think our ruck stocks are fine. I wouldnt go specfically hunting for a ruck with a late pick unless best available.

[Scraggers]

Re: The draft.

What I think we really need

Key defenders
Running mid sized defenders
Quickish Midfielders
Ruckman

My wish list

Pick 17 - Sam Docherty (mid sized defender) - super quick, elite skills
Pick 39 - Henry Schade (key defender) - gives excellent rebound and very good one on one
Pick 49 - Jimmy Webster (Inside/outside midfielder) - good skills, nice pace
Pick 57 - Jack Crisp (medium forward/defender) - Good pressure skills
Pick 70 - Alex Woodward (small inside midfielder/half forward) - Classy inside mid with very good pace, only 175cm though

Rookie Draft

Courtney Hylton (running defender) - good skills
Chris Prowse (Ruckman) - a little bit of a project

Two things ... How many do we have to delist to have five live picks?

Second I don't disagree with your choices (mainly because I haven't been paying attention to know who is out there this draft), but your idea of Chris Prowse as a bit of a project ... This I do disagree with ... I think we have had our fair share of project players ... I'm over them ... if they can't do what we need of them from day one, don't draft them. (does that sound harsh? Its not meant too)

[stefoid]

Re: The draft.

Most rucks are projects to some extent or other

[GVGjr]

Re: The draft.

Which ruck can take a big grab? that is the one Id go for. regardless of any other characteristic or deficiency.

These days, long kicks out of defence or long into a forward line are all the go to beat the press/zone/whatever.

Seriously, ruckman who cant take a big grab are a waste of space.

I sort of get what you are saying but stoppages are a key component of the game and ruckman who are mobile, effective around the ground at stoppages and are capable of being used in other roles would add more value of just being a ruckman just capable of grabbing a big mark.

Given the time that it takes to develop a ruckman and the health of our playing list is there any merit in getting a gut now and having him coming into calculations in a year or two?

The easy fix is to grab a midfielder but we might have to take a longer term view.
The top 5 sides this year all had depth at the ruck position and I think it's something that we need to look at either this year or at the latest next year.
We might have good number in ruckman at the moment, although I don't think Cordy should be rated there, but if we can get a quality guy it's still a worthy consideration.

[GVGjr]

Re: The draft.

Second I don't disagree with your choices (mainly because I haven't been paying attention to know who is out there this draft), but your idea of Chris Prowse as a bit of a project ... This I do disagree with ... I think we have had our fair share of project players ... I'm over them ... if they can't do what we need of them from day one, don't draft them. (does that sound harsh? Its not meant too)

Are you talking about ready made senior players from 2012 or guys that will transition there in a couple of years rather than the ones that are 3 to 4 years away from when they are drafted like Cordy?

[Missing Dog]

Re: The draft.

Two things ... How many do we have to delist to have five live picks?

Second I don't disagree with your choices (mainly because I haven't been paying attention to know who is out there this draft), but your idea of Chris Prowse as a bit of a project ... This I do disagree with ... I think we have had our fair share of project players ... I'm over them ... if they can't do what we need of them from day one, don't draft them. (does that sound harsh? Its not meant too)

I've mentioned my preferred delistings in the "who gets delisted" thread. Check page 1.

Prowse isn't that far away from playing AFL as say Prato was. He played for Vic Metro in the U18's comp and he understands the game well enough. He has the tools to make it, but he will take time like most ruckman do.

Here's my profile on him

Chris Prowse (Oakleigh Charges)
Height: 203cm, Weight: 87kg Age: 18

Prowse a solid ruckman that has pretty good skills for a big guy and is a good mark. Taps it down to advantage fairly ok, but still needs improvement in this area. He tackles pretty well and gives reasonable 2nd efforts. He can go forward and take a contested grab. Accurate shot on goal. He hasn’t really produced the season I wanted from him, but he has the tools to make it. Needs to work harder and pick up more of the ball around the ground. Needs to use his size to better effect and be a bit more aggressive. I like what I see still and he should be a reasonable rookie prospect

[Scraggers]

Re: The draft.

Are you talking about ready made senior players from 2012 or guys that will transition there in a couple of years rather than the ones that are 3 to 4 years away from when they are drafted like Cordy?

The later ... I don't mind giving kids a couple of years to find their feet, improve their fitness or skill level. I don't think we need to go the re-hashed players (fringe players); we've done that to death as well.

What I don't want is an athlete who can't play the game and is there for his running not his footy ability.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: The draft.

No it's tied to the club that earnt it in the first place. So if we trade it to say Essendon it's still tied to our finishing position.

The bigger catch with it is that we have to nominate the year we will use it at the start of the year ie. if we want to use it in 2014 we have to say so before the 2014 season, not at the end when we have finished 3rd last. If we end up premiers that year then thats just our bad luck (well not really if we're premiers) that the pick isn't great.

Well that IS tricky.
That's even double incentive to tank from the first game.
Knowing every game you lose improves the value of your comp pick.

[stefoid]

Re: The draft.

I sort of get what you are saying but stoppages are a key component of the game and ruckman who are mobile, effective around the ground at stoppages and are capable of being used in other roles would add more value of just being a ruckman just capable of grabbing a big mark.

Given the time that it takes to develop a ruckman and the health of our playing list is there any merit in getting a gut now and having him coming into calculations in a year or two?

The easy fix is to grab a midfielder but we might have to take a longer term view.
The top 5 sides this year all had depth at the ruck position and I think it's something that we need to look at either this year or at the latest next year.
We might have good number in ruckman at the moment, although I don't think Cordy should be rated there, but if we can get a quality guy it's still a worthy consideration.

My ignorant opinion is that pure ruckwork is overrated. Any strong 2m+ guy who can jump is going to be able to at least stop the other ruck from directing the ball where he wants, most of the time.

I reckon you can teach a big lug to at break even in the ruck, where to run, etc... but if the guy hasnt got the talent or the athleticism to take a big mark then he never will.

[Bornadog]

Re: The draft.

My ignorant opinion is that pure ruckwork is overrated. Any strong 2m+ guy who can jump is going to be able to at least stop the other ruck from directing the ball where he wants, most of the time.

I reckon you can teach a big lug to at break even in the ruck, where to run, etc... but if the guy hasnt got the talent or the athleticism to take a big mark then he never will.

Thats what we thought we could do with Prato.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The draft.

What I think we really need

Key defenders
Running mid sized defenders
Quickish Midfielders
Ruckman

My wish list

Pick 17 - Sam Docherty (mid sized defender) - super quick, elite skills
Pick 39 - Henry Schade (key defender) - gives excellent rebound and very good one on one
Pick 49 - Jimmy Webster (Inside/outside midfielder) - good skills, nice pace
Pick 57 - Jack Crisp (medium forward/defender) - Good pressure skills
Pick 70 - Alex Woodward (small inside midfielder/half forward) - Classy inside mid with very good pace, only 175cm though

Rookie Draft

Courtney Hylton (running defender) - good skills
Chris Prowse (Ruckman) - a little bit of a project

Good suggestions Bulldogsman. I agree that our defence needs attention, especially key defenders and I cant really see anyone in the wings. I have doubts about Tom Williams ever being a good strong (and reliable) defender and other than Brian Lake we dont have much else.

[Missing Dog]

Re: The draft.

Good suggestions Bulldogsman. I agree that our defence needs attention, especially key defenders and I cant really see anyone in the wings. I have doubts about Tom Williams ever being a good strong (and reliable) defender and other than Brian Lake we dont have much else.

Jack Frost from Williamstown (tall defender) is another we had a fair bit of interest in last year, but he failed a medico. I suspect he will be on our radar again this year as well as his brother Sam who is a little bit similar.

[stefoid]

Re: The draft.

Thats what we thought we could do with Prato.

So hes a good big mark is he?

[GVGjr]

Re: The draft.

My ignorant opinion is that pure ruckwork is overrated. Any strong 2m+ guy who can jump is going to be able to at least stop the other ruck from directing the ball where he wants, most of the time.

I reckon you can teach a big lug to at break even in the ruck, where to run, etc... but if the guy hasnt got the talent or the athleticism to take a big mark then he never will.

I think you are underestimating them.

Collingwood had Jolly and Wood supported by the likes of Brown and Dawes. With Jolly down on form they faltered a bit at the business end of the season.
Geelong had Ottens and West supported by Hawkins
West Coast had Cox and Naitanui supported by Kennedy and Lynch
Hawthorn ad Renouf, Bailey and Hale
Carlton had Kreuzer and Warnock supported by Hampson and OhAilpin.

In my opinion there is a need for a good ruckman if one can be found.