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  • Greystache
    Bulldog Team of the Century
    • Dec 2009
    • 9775

    #91
    Re: Nbn

    Originally posted by Twodogs
    Well explained.

    One question I meant to ask from earlier when you were talking about running copper or fibre from the node to the premises. Would it make sense that while they are connecting the copper that they could connect the fibre at the same time? Or is the fibre what's going to become obsolete and all the connections will be wireless.
    At the simplest level the fibre to the node option (FTTN) was so they didn't have to connect every single house to the NBN fibre as they were rolling it out. They could roll it out to a block and then connect it to the existing local network that distributes it to the individual houses. In most cases this is copper, but in some cases it's faster HFC. Essentially the benefit was two fold, it meant effectively connecting NBN to about 100,000 points across metro Australia instead of about 4 million, meaning they could get more people connected quickly rather than having to wait a decade or more in many cases, plus they were having huge amounts of trouble actually connecting the fibre to individual houses meaning it was much slower getting people connected, and it was going to cost 10-20 times more than had been originally claimed (though it was going to cost multiples more regardless of how easy it was to connect the fibre to houses).

    The downside side is the last remaining metres from the street to the house would be mostly copper connection, which is slower than fibre, and the copper is decaying and will need replacing eventually. The problem is regardless of the type of connection point to the actual house, the capacity issue that's causing slow speeds would exist anyway.

    The option that's being rolled out is the sensible one. It's gets more people connected now with adequate speed, at far lower cost, and it can be upgraded down the track. If underground fibre cables are considered the long-term internet strategy, then the copper can be replaced street by street, house by house, extending the fibre from the block corner (FTTN) to the individual houses (FTTP) and in turn upgrading the theoretical speed (but not resolving the actual problem that currently exists). In the meantime people would have vastly better theoretical capacity than the ADSL2+ network we'd been using. If wireless evolves to the point it can supply satisfactory capacity, then internet will be beamed wirelessly from centralised points to a receiver at each house and the physical fibre network (along with the copper & HFC) gets binned.
    [COLOR="#FF0000"][B]Western Bulldogs:[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR="#0000CD"][B]We exist to win premierships[/B][/COLOR]

    Comment

    • Bornadog
      WOOF Clubhouse Leader
      • Jan 2007
      • 65597

      #92
      Re: Nbn

      Originally posted by Greystache
      At the simplest level the fibre to the node option (FTTN) was so they didn't have to connect every single house to the NBN fibre as they were rolling it out. They could roll it out to a block and then connect it to the existing local network that distributes it to the individual houses. In most cases this is copper, but in some cases it's faster HFC. Essentially the benefit was two fold, it meant effectively connecting NBN to about 100,000 points across metro Australia instead of about 4 million, meaning they could get more people connected quickly rather than having to wait a decade or more in many cases, plus they were having huge amounts of trouble actually connecting the fibre to individual houses meaning it was much slower getting people connected, and it was going to cost 10-20 times more than had been originally claimed (though it was going to cost multiples more regardless of how easy it was to connect the fibre to houses).

      The downside side is the last remaining metres from the street to the house would be mostly copper connection, which is slower than fibre, and the copper is decaying and will need replacing eventually. The problem is regardless of the type of connection point to the actual house, the capacity issue that's causing slow speeds would exist anyway.

      The option that's being rolled out is the sensible one. It's gets more people connected now with adequate speed, at far lower cost, and it can be upgraded down the track. If underground fibre cables are considered the long-term internet strategy, then the copper can be replaced street by street, house by house, extending the fibre from the block corner (FTTN) to the individual houses (FTTP) and in turn upgrading the theoretical speed (but not resolving the actual problem that currently exists). In the meantime people would have vastly better theoretical capacity than the ADSL2+ network we'd been using. If wireless evolves to the point it can supply satisfactory capacity, then internet will be beamed wirelessly from centralised points to a receiver at each house and the physical fibre network (along with the copper & HFC) gets binned.
      A few points from your post.

      1. Not sure where you got the figure of cost 10 to 20 times more. If that is from the LNP then it's just a political figure.

      2. HCF Cabling - Are they using existing infrastructure? I don't believe they have been. I know plenty of people who use to have cable, but were forced off it to go to FTTN because NBNco weren't making use of the HCF. Maybe they have started to, but another stupid decision.

      3. Per highlighted above - No it's not. NBN have admitted that these people will never reach speeds that was promised. May as well just stayed on ADSL2, or Bigpond Cable.

      4. Do you really think they will ditch copper - probably not in our lifetime.

      I agree the whole thing is a mess, started by politicians and not thinking what is best for Australia.

      Sounds like you work for NBNco with the defence of the system.
      FFC: Established 1883

      Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

      Comment

      • Greystache
        Bulldog Team of the Century
        • Dec 2009
        • 9775

        #93
        Re: Nbn

        Originally posted by bornadog
        A few points from your post.

        1. Not sure where you got the figure of cost 10 to 20 times more. If that is from the LNP then it's just a political figure.

        2. HCF Cabling - Are they using existing infrastructure? I don't believe they have been. I know plenty of people who use to have cable, but were forced off it to go to FTTN because NBNco weren't making use of the HCF. Maybe they have started to, but another stupid decision.

        3. Per highlighted above - No it's not. NBN have admitted that these people will never reach speeds that was promised. May as well just stayed on ADSL2, or Bigpond Cable.

        4. Do you really think they will ditch copper - probably not in our lifetime.

        I agree the whole thing is a mess, started by politicians and not thinking what is best for Australia.

        Sounds like you work for NBNco with the defence of the system.
        Unfortunately the whole NBN project has dissolved into a mass of mis-information, endless sloganeering, and media campaigning to try to paint their political opposition in a bad light. The Age is an example of how effective the media can be in reporting propaganda as fact, and how people latch on to what are frankly ridiculous accusations when it's what they desperately want to believe. The whole #fraudband campaign, the Murdoch conspiracy, the claim Labor would've delivered the whole thing already for the original $20-30b cost estimate, it's just laughable. If it were all written on a satire website it wouldn't be realistic enough to be funny. The fact you keep using this as a basis to bash the LNP shows it's working.

        I work in strategy at a bank and have no vested interest in NBN other than an interest in how it works, where it's going in the future, and the facts behind the propaganda. I find the inept initial strategic planning professionally inexplicable, and the ensuing mess frustrating, but most of all I find the media reporting of the saga an excellent encapsulation of how facts are slaughtered in the pushing of a narrative in the modern MSM.
        [COLOR="#FF0000"][B]Western Bulldogs:[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR="#0000CD"][B]We exist to win premierships[/B][/COLOR]

        Comment

        • Bulldog4life
          WOOF Member
          • Oct 2007
          • 9607

          #94
          Re: Nbn

          Originally posted by Greystache
          Unfortunately the whole NBN project has dissolved into a mass of mis-information, endless sloganeering, and media campaigning to try to paint their political opposition in a bad light. Th e Age is an example of how effective the media can be in reporting propaganda as fact, and how people latch on to what are frankly ridiculous accusations when it's what they desperately want to believe. The whole #fraudband campaign, the Murdoch conspiracy, the claim Labor would've delivered the whole thing already for the original $20-30b cost estimate, it's just laughable. If it were all written on a satire website it wouldn't be realistic enough to be funny. The fact you keep using this as a basis to bash the LNP shows it's working.

          I work in strategy at a bank and have no vested interest in NBN other than an interest in how it works, where it's going in the future, and the facts behind the propaganda. I find the inept initial strategic planning professionally inexplicable, and the ensuing mess frustrating, but most of all I find the media reporting of the saga an excellent encapsulation of how facts are slaughtered in the pushing of a narrative in the modern MSM.
          You must include the Hun too. The only difference is they support different political parties.

          Comment

          • Twodogs
            Administrator
            • Nov 2006
            • 27645

            #95
            Re: Nbn

            MSM Grey?

            The only acronym I can find online is militant socialist movement and I'm fairly sure you don't mean them.
            They say Burt Lancaster has one, but I don't believe them.

            Comment

            • Greystache
              Bulldog Team of the Century
              • Dec 2009
              • 9775

              #96
              Re: Nbn

              Originally posted by Twodogs
              MSM Grey?

              The only acronym I can find online is militant socialist movement and I'm fairly sure you don't mean them.
              Haha, main stream media. Newpapers and tv news/current affairs predominantly.
              [COLOR="#FF0000"][B]Western Bulldogs:[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR="#0000CD"][B]We exist to win premierships[/B][/COLOR]

              Comment

              • hujsh
                Hall of Fame
                • Nov 2007
                • 11731

                #97
                Re: Nbn

                Originally posted by Twodogs
                MSM Grey?

                The only acronym I can find online is militant socialist movement and I'm fairly sure you don't mean them.
                As I member of the Movement for Militant Socialists I have to point out how much I hate the militant socialist movement. Splitters.
                [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                Comment

                • Twodogs
                  Administrator
                  • Nov 2006
                  • 27645

                  #98
                  Re: Nbn

                  Originally posted by Greystache
                  Haha, main stream media. Newpapers and tv news/current affairs predominantly.

                  Cheers mate. I like to call it the Meeja.


                  Originally posted by hujsh
                  As I member of the Movement for Militant Socialists I have to point out how much I hate the militant socialist movement. Splitters.

                  Absolutely. The MSM are worse than Trump!
                  They say Burt Lancaster has one, but I don't believe them.

                  Comment

                  • Greystache
                    Bulldog Team of the Century
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 9775

                    #99
                    Re: Nbn

                    Originally posted by hujsh
                    As I member of the Movement for Militant Socialists I have to point out how much I hate the militant socialist movement. Splitters.
                    You bastards! I hate both you bastards! I'm a Socialist Militant Movement
                    [COLOR="#FF0000"][B]Western Bulldogs:[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR="#0000CD"][B]We exist to win premierships[/B][/COLOR]

                    Comment

                    • Twodogs
                      Administrator
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 27645

                      Re: Nbn

                      Originally posted by hujsh
                      As I member of the Movement for Militant Socialists I have to point out how much I hate the militant socialist movement. Splitters.
                      Originally posted by Twodogs
                      Cheers mate. I like to call it the Meeja.




                      Absolutely. The MSM are worse than Trump!
                      Originally posted by Greystache
                      You bastards! I hate both you bastards! I'm a Socialist Militant Movement
                      Neo Fascist! Come the revolution the Neo Fascists will be first against the wall...
                      They say Burt Lancaster has one, but I don't believe them.

                      Comment

                      • Eastdog
                        WOOF Communtiy Organiser
                        • Feb 2012
                        • 18211

                        Re: Nbn

                        Let's not get political. We should get this thread back on track about the NBN.
                        "Footscray people are incredible people; so humble. I'm just so happy - ecstatic"

                        Comment

                        • Twodogs
                          Administrator
                          • Nov 2006
                          • 27645

                          Re: Nbn

                          Cheers Easty.

                          I must admit that I didn't think that this thread would get to 100 posts when you first posted it up mate.
                          They say Burt Lancaster has one, but I don't believe them.

                          Comment

                          • Eastdog
                            WOOF Communtiy Organiser
                            • Feb 2012
                            • 18211

                            Re: Nbn

                            Originally posted by Twodogs
                            Cheers Easty.

                            I must admit that I didn't think that this thread would get to 100 posts when you first posted it up mate.
                            Yeah it's currently very much in the news the NBN so thought it would generate some good discussions.
                            "Footscray people are incredible people; so humble. I'm just so happy - ecstatic"

                            Comment

                            • Bornadog
                              WOOF Clubhouse Leader
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 65597

                              Re: Nbn

                              Originally posted by Eastdog
                              Let's not get political. We should get this thread back on track about the NBN.
                              The NBN has been stuffed due to politics.
                              FFC: Established 1883

                              Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

                              Comment

                              • Eastdog
                                WOOF Communtiy Organiser
                                • Feb 2012
                                • 18211

                                Re: Nbn

                                Originally posted by bornadog
                                The NBN has been stuffed due to politics.
                                Yeah true nonetheless still good discussing related to the technology etc used.
                                "Footscray people are incredible people; so humble. I'm just so happy - ecstatic"

                                Comment

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