Nbn

[Axe Man]

Re: Nbn

Yeah true nonetheless still good discussing related to the technology etc used.

I believe this is the latest piece of technology being utilised by NBNco.

[Topdog]

Re: Nbn

I've learned not to try to debate nbn once the propaganda Kool Aid's been drunk, but to suggest the original plan would've been finished by now is childish. It would barely have made any progress such were the extent of the problems.

You talk about drinking Kool Aid but you have certainly done so here. No more problems on FTTP than we are seeing on FTTN and HFC. All aboard the FTTC train now but FTTN and HFC were a massive failure.

[Eastdog]

Re: Nbn

I believe this is the latest piece of technology being utilised by NBNco.

Really really old old school

[Twodogs]

Re: Nbn

I believe this is the latest piece of technology being utilised by NBNco.

That's a sophisticated piece of kit you've got yourself there Axy. Telstra shop?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Nbn

What kind of speed improvements are they expecting with FTTC? A lot of people aren't getting close to 100mps at the moment (when they pay for it) will this change with FTTC?

I'm getting a 50/20mps connection connected this week, it will be a nice step up from my 15mps ADSL 2 atm.

[Doc26]

Re: Nbn

A few points from your post.

2. HCF Cabling - Are they using existing infrastructure? I don't believe they have been. I know plenty of people who use to have cable, but were forced off it to go to FTTN because NBNco weren't making use of the HCF. Maybe they have started to, but another stupid decision.

BD, my understanding is that NBNco are tapping into Telstra cable when available to provide HFC to the premises.

I have both existing Telstra and Optus cable connected to the premises but the Optus cable is in transition to be decommissioned with the NBN roll out.

Whilst i now have the NBN box installed through our existing Telstra cable (there for our Foxtel) fortunately I can still get our data through our existing Optus modem / Optus cable. All still appears in transition, probably due to the more recent bad press with HFC rollouts and the pause button being pressed. I’m holding out as long as I can to continue to have our data provided through our pre NBN Optus cable plan, fearing a bandwidth drop once I activate the NBN modem. I’m generally getting wifi download of 90 + mbps and I’m guessing this is only going to fall off significantly when I switch over. Seems a crazy state that we go backwards not forwards with data comms supply.

Whilst our Optus cable will remain connected to the house it won’t be utilised by the telcos even though we remain with Optus as the retailer for data. It does seem quite a waste to me but can still understand why Optus are now so keen to decommission their capable existing cable infrastructure given that they’re now having to purchase their capacity through NBNco (via Telstra cable for HFC).

[Bornadog]

Re: Nbn

This article to me sums it all up beautifully. What is the objective of the NBN? Is it built so that we can stream Netflix at around 25mbps, or should it be built for 10, 20 or 50 years time?? Certainly Turnball told us 25mbps is enough - Mr No Vision.

The main problem with the NBN lies within the government’s intent - link

When your objective is to provide an internet service that’s good enough just to download Netflix, there will be problems

henever a policy fails to deliver, a good place to see why this happened is to look at the government’s objectives. This week, we received a very good explanation of the government’s objectives for the national broadband network and why it will continue to disappoint so many of us.
The poor regard in which Australia’s internet is held was displayed cuttingly this week by American journalist Ben Rothenberg, who is in Melbourne covering the Australian Open. He tweeted about a match in Auckland where it was suggested American Jack Sock had displayed a lack of effort. He then casually used our internet as a punch line: “(I’m working on uploading a video of Sock’s match but on this Australian wifi it’s going to take about an hour, bear with me y’all).”

Ben Rothenberg
✔@BenRothenberg

I'm working on uploading a video of Sock's match but on this Australian wifi it's going to take about an hour, bear with me y'all).
4:39 AM - Jan 14, 2018

It was a nicely timed sentiment, given the news this week that only a quarter of those who connected to the NBN via fibre to the node (FTTN) would be able to access download speeds of 100Mbps (megabits per second) once the rollout was completed.

Now you might expect the government would be scrambling to explain what it is doing to improve the situation.
But you would be wrong.


Far from expressing concern, the minister for communications, senator Mitch Fifield, wrote an opinion piece for Fairfax newspapers essentially boasting about those numbers.

He claimed there was no failure because “given the choice, Australians have shown that 100Mbps speeds are not as important to them as keeping monthly internet bills affordable, when the services they are using typically don’t require those speeds” (Netflix was the service he cited).

Now you might think the fact that higher internet speeds are unaffordable for a majority of Australians is a problem. But again you would be wrong.

And it is all about policy objectives.

The government’s objective for the national broadband network was not to give Australians a world-class internet with speeds and prices equivalent or better than the rest of the world, which in turn would provide the country with infrastructure that would set us up for the next 100 years.

As the NBN’s own corporate plan puts it, “nbn’s key objective is to ensure all Australians have access to fast broadband as soon as possible, at affordable prices, and at least cost”.

But what is fast? Well, senator Fifield made it clear that it was 25Mps, as that was the speed recommended to download Netflix. He said “everyone will have access to speeds of at least 25Mbps” and “two-thirds of premises will have access to 100Mbps”.


When your objective is only to provide everyone with an internet that allows them to download Netflix, then that is what you deliver.

Policy objectives have long been a problem with the NBN.

The Labor party, for example, did wish to have the faster fibre to the home (FTTH) connections, but it too came with a caveat. Because the ALP was forever afraid of budget deficits, the NBN was set up to be eventually sold at a profit. As such it could be deemed an investment and spending on it was “off-budget”.

This led to pricing issues that have caused the price of top-end internet speeds to be out of reach for most people, and where internet service providers (ISPs) have in effect skimped on buying access from the NBN, which means your connection slows during peak times.

That may improve under a new pricing model the NBN has just released – which has already led to some ISPs reducing their prices.
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has also cracked down on how ISPs advertise their speeds. Last year, Telstra agreed to compensate 42,000 customers because the limitations on their connections “were not capable of receiving the maximum advertised speeds of the plans”.


That is why most ISPs now refer to “standard/typical evening speeds” rather than the maximum possible speed.
But in the end it still comes back to policy objectives.

If your objective is an internet that is good enough to download Netflix in 2018, you can ignore what the requirements will be in 10, 20 or 50 years’ time, and you can also overlook the crucial issues of upload speeds that are vital for businesses.

If your objective is also to somehow make a profit from it all, then you try to do it as cheaply as possible by using sub-par technology such as FTTN rather than FTTH or FTTC (to the curb), , and under a structure that has people being either unable to afford plans with faster speeds or to access them.

And then to justify your objective, you claim that being unable to afford something is a matter of “choice” and proof that faster speeds are not needed.

At present, the objective is to roll out the national broadband network as fast as possible and to upgrade to FTTH or FTTC - as a representative from NBN Co told a recent parliamentary committee – “as and when consumers are willing to pay more because they need higher speeds”.

But we now have a system where the unwillingness to pay more is viewed as evidence that the need is not there, so does anyone expect that upgrade to occur soon?

And we all know that increased need will happen – but it will come at greater cost because, in effect, we will do the same thing twice – the first time on the cheap and the second time properly.

It’s why there may be fixes around the edges – some better pricing plans, maybe less buffering – but until the actual objective of the NBN changes, it will continue to disappoint and remain a punch line.

[Twodogs]

Re: Nbn

Guys. My mum asked me about home phones the other day and how they are being decommissioned. Can anyone give me a dumbed down reason (that a reasonably tech savvy 74 yo-she learned how to operate a kidney dialsysis machine last year-woman would understand) about why they are doing it and when the Men in Black can be expected to turn up and snatch her beloved home phone that she's had for nearly 50 years away?

[Doc26]

Re: Nbn

Guys. My mum asked me about home phones the other day and how they are being decommissioned. Can anyone give me a dumbed down reason (that a reasonably tech savvy 74 yo-she learned how to operate a kidney dialsysis machine last year-woman would understand) about why they are doing it and when the Men in Black can be expected to turn up and snatch her beloved home phone that she's had for nearly 50 years away?

Yes, they are replacing the old copper network with an optic fibre network (NBN Access Network). The optic fibre network will take over all the functions previously done by the copper network, but theoretically with much greater speeds and capacity.

So yes, unless your mum is in a rural or remote area, the copper phone network as we know it is being replaced by an internet based (VoIP) phone service. This VoIP option has been around now for quite a number of years for those both savvy enough and happy to rely on an internet based phone service.

Many now are just dropping their fixed phone line, and replacing it with a / their mobile phone.

The plan is for Telstra to switch of its copper phone network 18 months into the NBN transition period.

The NBN box that is installed in the home has a port on the back to run a (data) cable to a separate fixed internet based VoIP phone (she can purchase one of these from many retailers) if she would like the option that most closely resembles her current phone.

Please bear in mind that this new phone solution does rely on 240volt power so it is vulnerable to power outages. The old copper network only required ~52volts so the old fixed phones didn’t even need to be plugged into a wall power socket.

[boydogs]

Re: Nbn

Guys. My mum asked me about home phones the other day and how they are being decommissioned. Can anyone give me a dumbed down reason (that a reasonably tech savvy 74 yo-she learned how to operate a kidney dialsysis machine last year-woman would understand) about why they are doing it and when the Men in Black can be expected to turn up and snatch her beloved home phone that she's had for nearly 50 years away?

Home phones aren't being decommissioned, they just connect to your modem instead of the wall

You get two years after NBN is available to connect to it before your existing connection is retired, so they don't have to maintain two systems

[Twodogs]

Re: Nbn

Yes, they are replacing the old copper network with an optic fibre network (NBN Access Network). The optic fibre network will take over all the functions previously done by the copper network, but theoretically with much greater speeds and capacity.

So yes, unless your mum is in a rural or remote area, the copper phone network as we know it is being replaced by an internet based (VoIP) phone service. This VoIP option has been around now for quite a number of years for those both savvy enough and happy to rely on an internet based phone service.

Many now are just dropping their fixed phone line, and replacing it with a / their mobile phone.

The plan is for Telstra to switch of its copper phone network 18 months into the NBN transition period.

The NBN box that is installed in the home has a port on the back to run a (data) cable to a separate fixed internet based VoIP phone (she can purchase one of these from many retailers) if she would like the option that most closely resembles her current phone.

Please bear in mind that this new phone solution does rely on 240volt power so it is vulnerable to power outages. The old copper network only required ~52volts so the old fixed phones didn’t even need to be plugged into a wall power socket.

I can remember there would be a power black out at work back in the '80s and because everything had just been computerised we couldn't access the work we were doing so all you would see were lines of desks with people sitting at them making personal calls because there was literally nothing else we could do.

[Twodogs]

Re: Nbn

Home phones aren't being decommissioned, they just connect to your modem instead of the wall

You get two years after NBN is available to connect to it before your existing connection is retired, so they don't have to maintain two systems

Thanks mate. So mum can use her fixed line phone still as long as she fixes the line to the modem?

[boydogs]

Re: Nbn

Thanks mate. So mum can use her fixed line phone still as long as she fixes the line to the modem?

Yeah mate. If it's FTTN there's no battery backup but there is if it's FTTP

[Twodogs]

Re: Nbn

Yeah mate. If it's FTTN there's no battery backup but there is if it's FTTP

I think I will just attach one to the wall and tell her it plugged in. Nobody ever rings her on it. She's got two mobiles.

[Topdog]

Re: Nbn

What kind of speed improvements are they expecting with FTTC? A lot of people aren't getting close to 100mps at the moment (when they pay for it) will this change with FTTC?

I'm getting a 50/20mps connection connected this week, it will be a nice step up from my 15mps ADSL 2 atm.

Yes so one of the many problems with FTTN is the distance from the Node. Once you get above 700m it will start struggling. The following graph shows the distance well

http://www.itguyswa.com.au/whats-wrong-with-the-nbn/fttp-fttn-adsl-comparison/

With Fibre-to-the-Curb (Stupid name in Australia) the distance from the "Node" will always be < 150m so the very large majority will get a constant 100M easily. There will be some issues in MDUs which will share lead-ins but should be good.