2022 FIFA World Cup

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

1. Tradition - a ground that was established in 1853

2. 100,000 fans guaranteed.

"fans"

We can't decry the biased draw on one hand, and be uber conservative about a very unfair advantage on the other can we?

To me there isn't a good argument to have it at the G every year in a national competition.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

"fans"

We can't decry the biased draw on one hand, and be uber conservative about a very unfair advantage on the other can we?

To me there isn't a good argument to have it at the G every year in a national competition.

This is the problem with the A League, where all the teams were made up, as Sedat has mentioned and ikt has been hard to establish "Fans". The traditional clubs were ignored, so something was lost, the grass roots not there. It is going to take a long time to establish these teams and build a tradition. It hasn't even been 20 years since the A League was started, and some teams are only a few years old.

[Sedat]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

This is the problem with the A League, where all the teams were made up

Imagine having an entire competition made up of soulless GWS and Gold Coast franchises (honorable exception to Perth Glory, which at least started in the NSL era). Some of these manufactured clubs have done a good job of creating a tribal fanbase but it is going to be an awfully long time to build and fully establish this rusted-on tribalism, and decisions like the one to sell off the GF to Sydney won't help.

BBL is no better. There was geographic tribalism when it was a state based comp and it spiked further when the franchises first came in. But as with the A-League, those in charge rested on their laurels and just put more content on to fatten the TV rights without considering quality of personnel and product. Now it is just another dull and meaningless national comp that has shrunk rapidly into virtual irrelevence.

Is there even still a Rugby competition? If I wanted to go into the witness protection program, I'd simply get the ARU to manage my personal marketing and PR.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Imagine having an entire competition made up of soulless GWS and Gold Coast franchises (honorable exception to Perth Glory, which at least started in the NSL era). Some of these manufactured clubs have done a good job of creating a tribal fanbase but it is going to be an awfully long time to build and fully establish this rusted-on tribalism, and decisions like the one to sell off the GF to Sydney won't help.

BBL is no better. There was geographic tribalism when it was a state based comp and it spiked further when the franchises first came in. But as with the A-League, those in charge rested on their laurels and just put more content on to fatten the TV rights without considering quality of personnel and product. Now it is just another dull and meaningless national comp that has shrunk rapidly into virtual irrelevence.

Is there even still a Rugby competition? If I wanted to go into the witness protection program, I'd simply get the ARU to manage my personal marketing and PR.

Adelaide United and Brisbane Roar (under another name)were in the NSL.

[MrMahatma]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

1. Tradition - a ground that was established in 1853

2. 100,000 fans guaranteed.

3. Unfair advantage to Melb based teams.

4. Major advantage to MCG tenant teams.

[Sedat]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Adelaide United and Brisbane Roar (under another name)were in the NSL.

Were they? I stand corrected. I thought only Perth Glory survived the cull.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Were they? I stand corrected. I thought only Perth Glory survived the cull.

Adelaide just for a couple of years but I believe they were two older teams maybe that they replaced, and Brisbane were a different name I can't remember it.

Edit: You'll love this - the Brisbane Lions !

Foundation as Hollandia-Inala F.C. (1957–1970s)

See also: Queensland Lions FC
The origins of Brisbane Roar are traced back to the founding of Hollandia F.C. by Dutch immigrants in 1957. The club competed under this name for almost 20 years until, in the interest of inclusiveness and because perceptions that members of the public saw soccer as a migrants' game,^[9] all clubs were required to adopt non-ethnic names after a ruling by the Queensland Soccer Federation in 1973.
Brisbane Lions F.C. (1973–2004)

See also: Queensland Lions FC
The club continued to be based in the Brisbane suburb of Richlands. After adopting the name Brisbane Lions in the 1970s, the club joined the National Soccer League (NSL) as one of the founding clubs in the 1977 season and competed until the end of the 1988 season before reverting down to the Brisbane Premier League thereafter.
In the 1990s, the club again changed its name to Queensland Lions after coming to an agreement with the Australian rules football club, Brisbane Lions.^[10][11]
At the end of the 2004 season, Queensland Lions withdrew from the local Senior Men's competition to compete in the new National A-League as Queensland Roar. The Premier Youth team remained in the local soccer league.^[12]
For the next 3 seasons the senior Lions F.C. men's team was the Brisbane Roar but after 3 financially challenging years, Queensland Lions relinquished ownership of the Roar and reformed their men's team in the local Senior Men's competition.

[Eastdog]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Interesting video from 11 months ago.

A League’s dwindling crowds: a football problem, or a marketing problem?

https://youtu.be/36XeNNBhwB4

[Sedat]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Adelaide just for a couple of years but I believe they were two older teams maybe that they replaced, and Brisbane were a different name I can't remember it.

Edit: You'll love this - the Brisbane Lions !

Foundation as Hollandia-Inala F.C. (1957–1970s)

See also: Queensland Lions FC
The origins of Brisbane Roar are traced back to the founding of Hollandia F.C. by Dutch immigrants in 1957. The club competed under this name for almost 20 years until, in the interest of inclusiveness and because perceptions that members of the public saw soccer as a migrants' game,^[9] all clubs were required to adopt non-ethnic names after a ruling by the Queensland Soccer Federation in 1973.
Brisbane Lions F.C. (1973–2004)

See also: Queensland Lions FC
The club continued to be based in the Brisbane suburb of Richlands. After adopting the name Brisbane Lions in the 1970s, the club joined the National Soccer League (NSL) as one of the founding clubs in the 1977 season and competed until the end of the 1988 season before reverting down to the Brisbane Premier League thereafter.
In the 1990s, the club again changed its name to Queensland Lions after coming to an agreement with the Australian rules football club, Brisbane Lions.^[10][11]
At the end of the 2004 season, Queensland Lions withdrew from the local Senior Men's competition to compete in the new National A-League as Queensland Roar. The Premier Youth team remained in the local soccer league.^[12]
For the next 3 seasons the senior Lions F.C. men's team was the Brisbane Roar but after 3 financially challenging years, Queensland Lions relinquished ownership of the Roar and reformed their men's team in the local Senior Men's competition.

I'm an old NSL fan from way back and I remember the Brisbane Lions well. Had no idea they were related to the Brisbane Roar.

[Eastdog]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

I'm an old NSL fan from way back and I remember the Brisbane Lions well. Had no idea they were related to the Brisbane Roar.

Who did you support in the old NSL Sedat? The old NSL has the passion. Some great videos of the old NSL matches on YouTube.

[soupman]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Adelaide United and Brisbane Roar (under another name)were in the NSL.

Newcastle Jets were an NSL side also.

[soupman]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Imagine having an entire competition made up of soulless GWS and Gold Coast franchises (honorable exception to Perth Glory, which at least started in the NSL era). Some of these manufactured clubs have done a good job of creating a tribal fanbase but it is going to be an awfully long time to build and fully establish this rusted-on tribalism, and decisions like the one to sell off the GF to Sydney won't help.

Not sure the alternative was that great tbh.

The NSL and it's clubs had some things going for them, but the heavy ethnic ties within probably did create a ceiling for the comp. Sydney United's showing in the Cup this year is maybe an extreme example but I find it hard to argue how a club like that is one which could've/deserved to grow within a relaunched national comp.

I think the clubs have mostly done well considering they are "franchises", I think it's pretty inarguable that Victory, Sydney FC, WSW and Adelaide Utd have all been successes, mostly to a greater degree than their NSL counterparts probably could've achieved. Brisbane, Perth and Newcastle have probably been held back by poor decisions if anything. I think more than anything the lack of geographical divide/point of difference has held back a few of the clubs, the Melbourne clubs being the best example of that where City have only recently moved East to separate themselves from the Vuck, while Western Utd have tried to go West with thus far poor execution.

I take your point about the rusted on tribalism as pretty fair, but I guess for many fans they have not had it entrenched in them from childhood that their club is part of their identity, so are less stuck for better or worse than say their AFL counterparts.

[Sedat]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Who did you support in the old NSL Sedat? The old NSL has the passion. Some great videos of the old NSL matches on YouTube.

Heidelberg United. Also had a huge soft spot for Sydney Olympic.

[Sedat]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Not sure the alternative was that great tbh.

The NSL and it's clubs had some things going for them, but the heavy ethnic ties within probably did create a ceiling for the comp. Sydney United's showing in the Cup this year is maybe an extreme example but I find it hard to argue how a club like that is one which could've/deserved to grow within a relaunched national comp.

I think the clubs have mostly done well considering they are "franchises", I think it's pretty inarguable that Victory, Sydney FC, WSW and Adelaide Utd have all been successes, mostly to a greater degree than their NSL counterparts probably could've achieved. Brisbane, Perth and Newcastle have probably been held back by poor decisions if anything. I think more than anything the lack of geographical divide/point of difference has held back a few of the clubs, the Melbourne clubs being the best example of that where City have only recently moved East to separate themselves from the Vuck, while Western Utd have tried to go West with thus far poor execution.

I take your point about the rusted on tribalism as pretty fair, but I guess for many fans they have not had it entrenched in them from childhood that their club is part of their identity, so are less stuck for better or worse than say their AFL counterparts.

Things did need to change but those in charge went scorched earth and used the ethnicity of the clubs/supporters as the root cause of all the problems supposedly holding the game back, which was rubbish at the time and hasn't aged any better. There would never have been a national football competition to begin with without these migrant supporter bases/clubs and their genuine love and passion for the game - these supporters and clubs were paid lip service and effectively frozen completely out of the process of creating the new league. If you have clubs like South Melbourne, Sydney Olympic or Melbourne Knights not passing the criteria to become a foundation A-League club but the likes of New Zealand Knights being included, the criteria is seriously flawed. Then you have Gold Coast United and North Queensland Fury enter the competition not long after and just as quickly fold. And even with setting up new franchises, how could you not have a Western Sydney team from the start? And what the hell was the point of Melbourne Heart when they had no geographical footprint to give themselves a point of difference from Victory?

[jeemak]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Gippsland Flacons vs. South Melbourne got 8.3K to a NSL QF in 1994 at Latrobe Stadium........

The Victory vs. Wellington EF in 2019 got 16K at AAMI Park. Adelaide vs. Melbourne City got 13.2K in Adelaide. The semis between Perth, Melbourne, Adelaide and Sydney didn't fare much better.

That's progress I guess.......