Ricky Ponting

[Topdog]

Re: Ricky Ponting

I'm obviously watching a different game. Hayden, Hussey and Symonds have been excellent.
Whats the average of our last 5 wickets lately? Just because they don't make big scores does mean they haven't help make totals.
Yes batting first and making only 400 on a perfect pitch where the bottom half made a lot of runs really inspires your bowlers too.

Such a perfect pitch that the South African top order failed on it as well. There was movement and uneven bounce. It was a fairly decent bowling pitch.

Yes Tait was the next Lillee 3 tests with an average of 60. Sure.

Who on Earth said he was going to be the next Lillee. Put simply if he didnt go down he would be playing about his 15th test by now and would be comfortable playing Test cricket and offered us a heck of a lot more than Siddle did in the 1st test and 2nd innings of the 2nd test.

What? Cos they can make only 400 on flat decks but bowlers can't take wickets on these same flat deck?

South Africa could only make 400 aswell yet their bowlers didn't have a hard time taking wickets.

Thats a cop out. His has captained just as many where his top order including himself has failed.

Let me get this straight because he relied on champion bowlers in the past to back up his batsman in the past when they failed, they can be excused now for continuing to fail?

You can take it as a cop out, I'm merely stating that he is a relatively inexperienced captain when he doesn't have gun bowlers behind him. Whether he is a good captain or not remains to be seen.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Who on Earth said he was going to be the next Lillee. Put simply if he didnt go down he would be playing about his 15th test by now and would be comfortable playing Test cricket and offered us a heck of a lot more than Siddle did in the 1st test and 2nd innings of the 2nd test.

OK Tait was going to be the saviour then. 3 test at 60 per wicket tell you, you are dreaming.

[Topdog]

Re: Ricky Ponting

OK Tait was going to be the saviour then. 3 test at 60 per wicket tell you, you are dreaming.

Again Ernie who said he was going to be the saviour? You can attempt to put words in peoples mouth all you like but at the end of the day you just look like a dickhead doing it.

All that has been said is that he would be offering more than Siddle at the moment. To be honest he'd be offering a heck of a lot more than Lee too at the moment but I wouldn't want to make it sound like I'm saying he is brilliant so I'll leave that out.

[Twodogs]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Where are these cases?

Bob Holland was 38 when he debuted and he won tests for Australia. Steve Waugh and Mark Taylor were both the wrong side of 35 and had been written off by experts when they produced their best cricket.



Cricket is a complicated game and if you try and tie it down to formulae like "so and so must retire because he has reached 35" or "so and so is a better option because he's 5-10 years younger than his rival" then it tends to make you look foolish.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Bob Holland was 38 when he debuted and he won tests for Australia.

On a spinners paradise against the West Indies(Allan Border was a top spinner against them in Sydney) after we had well and truly lost the series. He was useless after that.

Steve Waugh and Mark Taylor were both the wrong side of 35 and had been written off by experts when they produced their best cricket.

Neither of these debutted at 35 and though they might of been soolid contributors, I disagree their best cricket was past them.

Cricket is a complicated game and if you try and tie it down to formulae like "so and so must retire because he has reached 35" or "so and so is a better option because he's 5-10 years younger than his rival" then it tends to make you look foolish.

Its not a formula. Just saying its highly unlikely.

[mjp]

Re: Ricky Ponting

I actually think Tait could be the saviour - he is a simply a wicket taker. I cannot imagine a recurrance of day 3 in Melbourne if he was able to let loose in 4-5 over spells...He is one bowler who is genuinely feared at state level.

Anyway, he doesn't want to play so I guess the argument is closed.

Next Lillee? Not likely. Next Thompson? Potentially. After all, Lillee (well, the Lillee I remember) actually seemed to have some idea where he was trying to land the ball and a plan to get batsman out. Tait's plan seems to be run in and bowl it as fast as he can, and if the batsman hit that one, well, let's see if he can hit this one.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Again Ernie who said he was going to be the saviour? You can attempt to put words in peoples mouth all you like but at the end of the day you just look like a dickhead doing it.

Yes I'm a dickhead because you come out with the crap.
I'm not sure what you are trying say?
Is it if Tait wasn't injured all the time, if had the desire, if he improved his bowling, if his competition not performed as well, then he would played 15 test by now? Would have Australia beaten both India and South Africa cos he was there? I doubt it.
Its huge stretch to say he would played 15 tests, let alone been a good contributor.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

I really think you need another trick to your bag than just genuine pace to be a very good test bowler.

[Twodogs]

Re: Ricky Ponting

I actually think Tait could be the saviour - he is a simply a wicket taker. I cannot imagine a recurrance of day 3 in Melbourne if he was able to let loose in 4-5 over spells...He is one bowler who is genuinely feared at state level.

Anyway, he doesn't want to play so I guess the argument is closed.

Next Lillee? Not likely. Next Thompson? Potentially. After all, Lillee (well, the Lillee I remember) actually seemed to have some idea where he was trying to land the ball and a plan to get batsman out. Tait's plan seems to be run in and bowl it as fast as he can, and if the batsman hit that one, well, let's see if he can hit this one.

Tait sits down to pee. Will never be a decent Australian player.

[Twodogs]

Re: Ricky Ponting

On a spinners paradise against the West Indies(Allan Border was a top spinner against them in Sydney) after we had well and truly lost the series. He was useless after that.

From memory he had two very good tests and then went to England where he took a 5 for at Lords. It's more than one test.

Neither of these debutted at 35 and though they might of been soolid contributors, I disagree their best cricket was past them.

I dont remember Taylor making 300 before he was 35...

Its not a formula. Just saying its highly unlikely.

Well I'm of the belief that if Australia wants to rebuild then players over 30 are a no no at the moment.

If you are 30+ and haven't debuted, sorry but your time has past.

Bowlers over 30 a no no.

^^^^^^^^^^
They are all formula...

[Twodogs]

Re: Ricky Ponting

I really think you need another trick to your bag than just genuine pace to be a very good test bowler.

Agreed. (Late) movement is what gets good batsmen out these days.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

From memory he had two very good tests and then went to England where he took a 5 for at Lords. It's more than one test.

Only good test in Australia was the one I mentioned.
At Lords he had 0 wickets in first innings and 3 of those 5wickets was the tail in the second innings. He was ok on a pitch where Australia consistently win.
Border won that game with 196 and 41no. Holland was probably the worst fieldmans I ever seen at test cricket.

I dont remember Taylor making 300 before he was 35...

That was an oasis of an innings in a desert of low scores.
Doesn't mean he was in career best form. He was lucky not to be dropped before that for consistent failures.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Ok Its a twodogs I'm saying it should be a policy at the moment for Australian cricket.
Show me a 30+yo fast bowler that you think should debut? I believe Nannes is up there but there are probably younger and just as talented players out there. He would have to take 50 state wickets maintain his fitness before I would consider.

[Twodogs]

Re: Ricky Ponting

He was lucky not to be dropped before that for consistent failures.

Yep. That's my exact point...

[dog town]

Re: Ricky Ponting

I have already made my thoughts on the merits of picking an all rounder clear on another thread but we need to give McDonald a chance now that he has been picked. He is a pretty good player so I dont expect him to fall flat on his face in Sydney.

I think people will be pleasantly surprised by his bowling. He is a genuine wicket taker in that he can get slight movement in the air but because of his height he can hit the pitch reasonably hard for a slow bowler and get some rising sideways movement. Gets good players out consistently at Shield level. His batting is obviously the thing that he is going to have to try ad hang his hat on. He had some injuries over the last couple of seasons but the season before them he averaged well into he 50s from memory.

I think its unlikely that he will be our saviour (did anyone else see that ridiculous headline in the HS?) but he is a good player that will contribute. I will judge him on how he performs and nothing else.