MLB (Baseball)

[GVGjr]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

There is a lot to admire about the rays and a lot lessons that can be learnt by the way they operate. With free agency coming into the AFL next year maybe its not all doom and gloom for clubs like ours as has been touted.

When AFL clubs visit overseas sporting organizations they tend to follow the big boys rather than the ones punching above their weight and I think we should be focusing on what the clubs like Tampa Bay are doing to see what opportunities there are for us.

[anfo27]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

When AFL clubs visit overseas sporting organizations they tend to follow the big boys rather than the ones punching above their weight and I think we should be focusing on what the clubs like Tampa Bay are doing to see what opportunities there are for us.

I was thinking about this a few weeks ago. This may sound stupid but I thought why don't we pay 92.5% of the cap and use that money we save in upgrading our drafting & development areas. Then when we lose players to free agency we can get the best kids out there to replace them. Might sound too simple to work but was just a thought.

[Raw Toast]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

It's marvelous in baseball how some teams are able to be super competitive even though the spend a fraction of the money that teams like the Yankees do. The Tampa Bay Rays only spend about 20 to 25% of the salary the Yankees do.
It doesn't always happen but every now and then some teams surprise.

Found this article to be interesting

Baseball

Money is still a huge issue in the MLB, but a salary cap won't work because the biggest problem is that the revenue sharing is completely unfair - teams get to negotiate their own tv contracts, and thus the teams in the biggest media markets have much better deals than the rest. Tampa Bay has been able to go against this as anfo notes below.

The Tampa Bay Rays are a great example of being a very smart organisation. They are in the toughest division where they are competing with the huge payrolls of the Yankees & Red Sox just to make the post season and they have made the post season 3 out of the last 4 years.
As the article tells us the Yankees have a payroll of $200 million, Red Sox $160 million while they are working with a budget of $40 million and have to find a way to compete. They look at these bigger organisations and think 'how can we compete with these guys'. They know they can't out spend these teams so they have decided that the only way they can compete is to out develop these bigger ball clubs. They put all their resources into development & drafting and have done a terrific job. When they get their draft picks they nail them and they use the free agency to their advantage.
They lost some damn good players in the off season to free agency (Crawford, Benoit, Soriano, Garza, Bartlett, Balfour) and they made no real attempt to keep these players, yet they still made the post season. They prefer to concentrate on nailing the compensation picks to further stregthen their farm system. The depth of talent the Rays have in their organisation is amazing and they will continue to be a power in their division for many years to come.
There is a lot to admire about the rays and a lot lessons that can be learnt by the way they operate. With free agency coming into the AFL next year maybe its not all doom and gloom for clubs like ours as has been touted.

The problem with us trying to follow the Rays model is that we don't have the same kind of inefficiencies in our system. The MLB draft goes for 50 or so rounds, and Tampa Bay invest more in scouting than bigger teams and get a much deeper list through the compensation picks and better drafting.

In the AFL the Dogs still don't have resources to invest more in the draft than the bigger teams, and the biggest growing problem is that the Pies et al have realised that they can beef up their footy depts much more than we can. So unless they become lazy, we're not going to be able to get a huge advantage.

Also, baseball players typically take 4-6 years to get to the parent team, and then the team has them under control for 6 years. (To use the language of major league baseball.) It's a fair bit easier to build a very competitive team on a fairly constant stream of very good to excellent prospects in their mid-20s, than it is to rely on a few comp picks when you lose your free agents.

Comparisons with NFL also fail a bit because their top draft picks can make often a big impact in their first year, definitely by their second year.

really disappointed there has been no live games on ONE HD thus far. To have nearly one live game every Mon-Fri during the regular season and not one live game post season is piss poor.

Indeed. ONE HD has become significantly worse since it's ownership changed to include some people with investment in Fox. I'm crazy enough to pay the mlb (and nfl) for the privilege of watching their games live, but wish ONE had lived up to its promise.

[Raw Toast]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

When AFL clubs visit overseas sporting organizations they tend to follow the big boys rather than the ones punching above their weight and I think we should be focusing on what the clubs like Tampa Bay are doing to see what opportunities there are for us.

I was thinking about this a few weeks ago. This may sound stupid but I thought why don't we pay 92.5% of the cap and use that money we save in upgrading our drafting & development areas. Then when we lose players to free agency we can get the best kids out there to replace them. Might sound too simple to work but was just a thought.

Both of these were posted while I was writing my too long post

I agree that we should be visiting successful teams from smaller markets who have been clever enough to flourish with fewer resources.

I still don't think we can get the kind of advantage we need in recruiting, because the bigger teams are already trying to outspend everyone else with this anyway.

[GVGjr]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

The problem with us trying to follow the Rays model is that we don't have the same kind of inefficiencies in our system. The MLB draft goes for 50 or so rounds, and Tampa Bay invest more in scouting than bigger teams and get a much deeper list through the compensation picks and better drafting.

Granted they are very different codes and vastly different with salary caps and drafts etc but the main fact is that an under resourced club has found the best way for them to compete against richer and better resourced clubs. They just had to or learn to be content just to make up the numbers. I think there are better lessons to learn from clubs the Rays than some high profiled soccer clubs.

[anfo27]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

Both of these were posted while I was writing my too long post

I agree that we should be visiting successful teams from smaller markets who have been clever enough to flourish with fewer resources.

I still don't think we can get the kind of advantage we need in recruiting, because the bigger teams are already trying to outspend everyone else with this anyway.

I agree its not an area that we can get a big advantage over clubs like Collingwood but its an area we need to get a hell of lot better at. If we could spend more money in this area then we can make every pick count. Having a highly talented list that we can develop will give us a more realistic chance to compete for a flag.
I've heard time & time again that you can't compete unles you pay 100% of the cap and i think thats rubbish. You can't compete if you can't get the best kids to your organisation or you can't develop those kids.

[The Underdog]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

really disappointed there has been no live games on ONE HD thus far. To have nearly one live game every Mon-Fri during the regular season and not one live game post season is piss poor.

Indeed. ONE HD has become significantly worse since it's ownership changed to include some people with investment in Fox. I'm crazy enough to pay the mlb (and nfl) for the privilege of watching their games live, but wish ONE had lived up to its promise.

Pretty sure One don't have the rights to show the playoffs live. Fox must own them. They've always showed the playoffs on delay. It sucks but at least it's something.
Thank Christ for my DVR, it's full of baseball playoffs that I might finish watching around Christmas.

Wild win by the Brewers today. Go Brew Crew.

[anfo27]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

Pretty sure One don't have the rights to show the playoffs live. Fox must own them. They've always showed the playoffs on delay. It sucks but at least it's something.
Thank Christ for my DVR, it's full of baseball playoffs that I might finish watching around Christmas.

Wild win by the Brewers today. Go Brew Crew.

Why on earth would you pitch to Prince if you have a free base open? Kirk Gibson made that mistake a few times in games 1 & 2 and paid for it but he is a rookie coach, La Russa is one of the most experienced managers going around and he makes the same mistake.

Some more bad news for the Tigers, as well as losing Delmon Young for the series we have lost Ordonez for the season with a broken ankle. Looks like Don Kelly & Ryan Raburn will be playing every day now, not good news.

[The Underdog]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

Some more bad news for the Tigers, as well as losing Delmon Young for the series we have lost Ordonez for the season with a broken ankle. Looks like Don Kelly & Ryan Raburn will be playing every day now, not good news.

Young has been brought back to replace Ordonez. Not sure how fit he'll be or if he'll have any power.

[Remi Moses]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

Going to win plenty of ball games when the pen goes 8 1/3 without conceding!

[The Underdog]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

Tigers with some work to do. Rangers have deeper hitting and relief pitching and probably level on starting pitching at this point.
Brewers are going to have to win some games away. I've got a bad feeling the Cards are all of a sudden big favourites in the NLCS. Pujols destroyed in game 2. Brewers starting pitching is looking bad.

[anfo27]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

Tigers with some work to do. Rangers have deeper hitting and relief pitching and probably level on starting pitching at this point.
Brewers are going to have to win some games away. I've got a bad feeling the Cards are all of a sudden big favourites in the NLCS. Pujols destroyed in game 2. Brewers starting pitching is looking bad.

not a great start for my tigers. Our relief pitching consists of benoit, coke & valverde & when we use anyone else we're in trouble. We have no depth in our pen at all and this when your weaknesses get shown up. whats really disappointing is our hitting. Players like Cabrera, matinez, Avila, Peralta, betemit can not get the job done when they couldn't stop driving in runs during the regular season. Avila in particular has had 2 hits in 7 games.

Not over yet but we are in a massive hole right now.

[The Underdog]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

not a great start for my tigers. Our relief pitching consists of benoit, coke & valverde & when we use anyone else we're in trouble. We have no depth in our pen at all and this when your weaknesses get shown up. whats really disappointing is our hitting. Players like Cabrera, matinez, Avila, Peralta, betemit can not get the job done when they couldn't stop driving in runs during the regular season. Avila in particular has had 2 hits in 7 games.

Not over yet but we are in a massive hole right now.

The deals the Rangers made for Adams, Uehara and Gonzalez may be the ones that get them a WS win. On the upside Don Kelly is hitting for the first time in his life.
BTW, how is that Dirks drop in the 11th not scored an error. He dropped a straight forward catch FFS.
Looks like One only have the rights to the NLCS
Seriously wish the Phillies had of got through so at least there was some pitching left in the NL. If the Rangers get through to the WS they might put up 10 runs a game against the NL (Carpenter aside)

[anfo27]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

The deals the Rangers made for Adams, Uehara and Gonzalez may be the ones that get them a WS win. On the upside Don Kelly is hitting for the first time in his life.
BTW, how is that Dirks drop in the 11th not scored an error. He dropped a straight forward catch FFS.
Looks like One only have the rights to the NLCS
Seriously wish the Phillies had of got through so at least there was some pitching left in the NL. If the Rangers get through to the WS they might put up 10 runs a game against the NL (Carpenter aside)

Yeah the Rangers picked up some good arms on the trade deadline while we picked up Pauley for our pen and he has been rubbish.
Don Kelly 0-4 tonight and they were hitting him after Victor.
Haven't seen the Dirks catch yet, maybe One will show replay one day so i can catch it.
Marcum and Greinke haven't been great for the crew but at least they are there with a chance. If my Tigers get there I'll be licking my chops with the pitching duels.
Did you see Beltre today? he fouled the ball 3 times into his legs and he was hobbling for most of the game. He looks to be in a lot of pain and so does Victor. We're still alive.

I hear the Cubs are into Theo Epstein big time and are waiting for his decision to go to the Cubs or see out his contract with the Red Sox. Happy with this move?

[The Underdog]

Re: MLB (Baseball)

Yeah the Rangers picked up some good arms on the trade deadline while we picked up Pauley for our pen and he has been rubbish.
Don Kelly 0-4 tonight and they were hitting him after Victor.
Haven't seen the Dirks catch yet, maybe One will show replay one day so i can catch it.
Marcum and Greinke haven't been great for the crew but at least they are there with a chance. If my Tigers get there I'll be licking my chops with the pitching duels.
Did you see Beltre today? he fouled the ball 3 times into his legs and he was hobbling for most of the game. He looks to be in a lot of pain and so does Victor. We're still alive.

I hear the Cubs are into Theo Epstein big time and are waiting for his decision to go to the Cubs or see out his contract with the Red Sox. Happy with this move?

I usually use ESPN highlights which is where I saw the Dirks drop. Good win by the Tigres, had to win it to be realistically alive.

If Theo ends up with the Cubs that's freakin' awesome, if Francona comes with him, I may need a moment alone