Australia vs Pakistan

[mighty_west]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

Fact - the score was 127. We are going around in circles, it was better to Pakistan batting on day 1 then Australia regardless of how they batted. Not sure how anyone now can't see it was the wrong decision

See, the other thing you have to consider, is that we have crumbled a few times in the 2nd dig, 225 in the first Test v Pakistan, yet Watson made 120 of those, take that score away and it doesn't read too well.

The 2nd dig of the 3rd test v the Windies, we only managed 150 where's the Windies batted last and made 323, where's we scored heavily in our first innings, so it's obviously the planning with Ponting and the coaching staff to bat at all costs first up, whether we think thats a bad decision or not, it seems as though its the one they will always take.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

It's only better that Pakistan batted because we batted like s***.

We are going around in circles.
And Pakistan could have batted worse. At the very least give them the worst conditions and take the pressure off your own bats.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

See, the other thing you have to consider, is that we have crumbled a few times in the 2nd dig, 225 in the first Test v Pakistan, yet Watson made 120 of those, take that score away and it doesn't read too well.

The 2nd dig of the 3rd test v the Windies, we only managed 150 where's the Windies batted last and made 323, where's we scored heavily in our first innings, so it's obviously the planning with Ponting and the coaching staff to bat at all costs first up, whether we think thats a bad decision or not, it seems as though its the one they will always take.

So they crumbled on the first day. Next test will they bowl regardless of the conditions?
The pitch and weather on day should over rule a ridiculous broad based defensive attitude that you are saying puts no faith in the bats.

Beside the shoe could quick easily be on the other foot as the Pakis didn't really bat well in better conditions. Chasing 100 in the last innings here isn't the hardest task. If they crumble it confirms the bats need a change. Now all the focus is in a what was a poor toss decision.

[Mantis]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

So they crumbled on the first day. Next test will they bowl regardless of the conditions?
The pitch and weather on day should over rule a ridiculous broad based defensive attitude that you are saying puts no faith in the bats.

Beside the shoe could quick easily be on the other foot as the Pakis didn't really bat well in better conditions. Chasing 100 in the last innings here isn't the hardest task. If they crumble it confirms the bats need a change. Now all the focus is in a what was a poor toss decision.

Your focus?

My focus on our bats who continue to perform poorly such that we need a change in batting order and in make-up.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

Your focus?

My focus on our bats who continue to perform poorly such that we need a change in batting order and in make-up.

Excuse me, I worded that badly. A case for the bats failure in the first innings can easily be made that it was due to the conditions.

Nice of you to pick on a few words.

[mighty_west]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

So they crumbled on the first day. Next test will they bowl regardless of the conditions?
The pitch and weather on day should over rule a ridiculous broad based defensive attitude that you are saying puts no faith in the bats.

Beside the shoe could quick easily be on the other foot as the Pakis didn't really bat well in better conditions. Chasing 100 in the last innings here isn't the hardest task. If they crumble it confirms the bats need a change. Now all the focus is in a what was a poor toss decision.

Actually the decision to bat no matter what is very much putting faith in the batting attack to get the team off to a good start, put on a big score, and go from there, regardless of the pitch whether it's a green top, is to say to your batsmen, i back you guys 100%, doesn't always work, like with this Test, but thats not just about the pitch conditions, but with the batting as a whole, and obviously Ponting & match comittee do back in the batsmen to start off a test of 5 days with a healthy score on the board.

They won't bowl next time around, because they obviously always plan to bat whatever the conditions, knowing that generally batting last is always the hardest, and Ponting would have had more faith in that side getting bowled out for 127, we can all blame the pitch as much as we want, but we batted extremely poorly as much as Pakistan bowled extremely well, and there is not going to be a hell of a difference between day one & day two pitch wise, over the 5 days, yeah sure, but not so much over 2.

[Mantis]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

Excuse me, I worded that badly. A case for the bats failure in the first innings can easily be made that it was due to the conditions.

Of course it can, but when you dig a little deeper and take into account the results of the last 6 to 12 months you will find that there is a strong case to show that changes need to be made.

[GVGjr]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

Of course it can, but when you dig a little deeper and take into account the results of the last 6 to 12 months you will find that there is a strong case to show that changes need to be made.

I agree that we haven't had the level of consistency for something like 12 months even with the recent emergence of Watson.
I guess Hussey has made the most of his chances with some career saving innings which probably only leaves North as the vulnerable one. If Katich comes in for North is Hughes the right man to have in the side?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

Actually the decision to bat no matter what is very much putting faith in the batting attack to get the team off to a good start, put on a big score, and go from there, regardless of the pitch whether it's a green top, is to say to your batsmen, i back you guys 100%, doesn't always work, like with this Test, but thats not just about the pitch conditions, but with the batting as a whole, and obviously Ponting & match comittee do back in the batsmen to start off a test of 5 days with a healthy score on the board.

Ok you want it both ways. Your defence before was that they are prone crumble in the last innings, You have faith in them batting well in the 1st innings but not in the 4th innings, how is that backing them 100%? Meanwhile you show any lack of faith in the bowlers on a pitch thats suits them.
You seem to keep forgetting it was a green top.

They won't bowl next time around, because they obviously always plan to bat whatever the conditions, knowing that generally batting last is always the hardest, and Ponting would have had more faith in that side getting bowled out for 127, we can all blame the pitch as much as we want, but we batted extremely poorly as much as Pakistan bowled extremely well, and there is not going to be a hell of a difference between day one & day two pitch wise, over the 5 days, yeah sure, but not so much over 2.

Generally does not work all the time. Horses for courses. There was no where near as much cloud as day 1 on day 2 and its had a day to dry out. Not only was it pitch better but you know you only have to chase a small first innings.
Beside who is blaming the pitch? I'm questioning the toss decision.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

Of course it can, but when you dig a little deeper and take into account the results of the last 6 to 12 months you will find that there is a strong case to show that changes need to be made.

I know that and you know that but its an excuse thats there and likely to be used.
We also know how difficult it is to be dropped from the side.

[mighty_west]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

Ok you want it both ways. Your defence before was that they are prone crumble in the last innings, You have faith in them batting well in the 1st innings but not in the 4th innings, how is that backing them 100%? Meanwhile you show any lack of faith in the bowlers on a pitch thats suits them.
You seem to keep forgetting it was a green top.

Nope, one way, bat first.

My defence in pitches crumbling on the last day very much links up with wanting to bat first, will it crumble as much as a road with 40 degree sun on all days, off course not, but it still will deteriorate, like i have stated a few times, bowlers foot marks, cracks appearing, they will all be at their worst by day 5, even on a green pitch, combine that with the added pressures and mind games of having to bat last, you can't just say, Oh, it's a green top, bat first, there are many considerations one has to make.

How good is your bowling attack? Will they do enough damage on day one to justify batting second then having to bat last where its generally hardest to bat etc?, adding to that the recent record of our batting form in second inning's, again, as i have stated, all those factors have to come into play, so it's not as cut dry as, green top, bowl.

I think you have been confusing my thoughts with the thoughts i'm seeng as Pontings and / or his & the match commitee's, had we bowled first, no drama's, but i'm just defending the decisions to bat even though not on a batsman friendly pitch, knowing of all the considerations i have been through.

And again, even though it was a green top, and i am taking green top into consideration, it's not a 127 pitch day one, and naturally Ponting isn't Nostradamus, him & the match committee would have backed the batsmen any day of the week to make a decent score of around 300, unfortunatly though, and not so much a fault of the green pitch, or the weather conditions, we shot ourselves in the foot by playing silly shots, Ponting completely threw away his wicket, Hughes was all out attack on a pitch suited more to digging in, throw away the must score at 4 an over routine, and just dig in, wait for the loose balls, and play those shots.

[mighty_west]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

I know that and you know that but its an excuse thats there and likely to be used.
We also know how difficult it is to be dropped from the side.

Not according to Hodge, Rogers or Krezja.

[Bornadog]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

I agree that we haven't had the level of consistency for something like 12 months even with the recent emergence of Watson.
I guess Hussey has made the most of his chances with some career saving innings which probably only leaves North as the vulnerable one. If Katich comes in for North is Hughes the right man to have in the side?

I am not convinced Hughes is the right man for the job at the moment, however, he is young and has plenty of opportunity to make the opening spot his in the future.

Watson has surprised me as an opener. He is playing well and I would leave him there. North must be dropped.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

Nope, one way, bat first.

Batting is batting first or fourth innings

My defence in pitches crumbling on the last day very much links up with wanting to bat first, will it crumble as much as a road with 40 degree sun on all days, off course not, but it still will deteriorate, like i have stated a few times, bowlers foot marks, cracks appearing, they will all be at their worst by day 5, even on a green pitch, combine that with the added pressures and mind games of having to bat last, you can't just say, Oh, it's a green top, bat first, there are many considerations one has to make.

Again around in circles, it was a bowl first pitch, Very little of what you wrote applys.

I think you have been confusing my thoughts with the thoughts i'm seeng as Pontings and / or his & the match commitee's, had we bowled first, no drama's, but i'm just defending the decisions to bat even though not on a batsman friendly pitch, knowing of all the considerations i have been through.

Why are you trying to justify it then? It was the wrong decision. Plain and simple.

And again, even though it was a green top, and i am taking green top into consideration, it's not a 127 pitch day one,

But it was???? Fact. Thats what they made.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Australia vs Pakistan

Not according to Hodge, Rogers or Krezja.

1/2 test match players aside.
Once settled in the side, you're in