Trade Rumours 2024

[hujsh]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

Would the hypothetical deal be something like Carlton give first round (11) and get SDK, cats give SDK and get Baz, we give Baz and get pick 11?

I think we would all take that as a starting point.

Summarised on the dogs Board as

Geelong ITK on their board saying they are hearing that SDK is now possibly on the move. Sounds more a part of the Oliver deal with maybe the Blues involved though. Good in a way even if we don't get him, Cats still have all their picks to trade...

Looking myself though it looks like they're leaning more towards him staying as he knows a trade won't happen this year (given Geelong's recent history of not honoring trade requests unless players are OOC) Geelong wanting 11 and a F1, Blues don't want to do that.

Blues want to add players to the trade and potentially Cerra to Melbourne which would make Oliver's move easier.

This is from a 'person ITK with a Carlton connection' who also states 'SDK wouldn't go anywhere but Carlton'

The person saying he was on the move just confirmed it would be a 3 way deal with Melbourne but no other details. So conflicting ITK reports lol

[GVGjr]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

Then let him go to the draft. I’m not wanting to help them win flags by taking very poor trades with them. They have players to trade too. Honestly, if we are contending over the next few years we are arming our opponent with an advantage by taking ho hum picks. We owe him and Geelong no obligation to trade if it’s not in good faith. They should identify a good player surplus to need (ie SDK) and get it done. If not, I’d honestly rather forgo Pick 20 then proactively improve their list.

There are plenty of options to get a reasonable deal done.
They could do something with other clubs to move up the order a few spots.
They could canvass some of their players to see if they would like to be moved to us in a package pick and player deal.
And they could just offer their R1 pick this year and a F1.
They've chased Smith for a while and have obviously met his terms so the onus is on them to put forward a competitive offer to us.
Of course they want to get him on the cheap but they're a a flag contending team and we shouldn't gift them Bailey Smith for a significant undervalue.

There will be a level of flexibility but at some stage during these discussions there could be a scenario where we say sorry but that doesn't work for us.

They may feel if they just hold out we will fold and there seems to be a lot of our supporters open to that scenario because apparently something is better than nothing. But if we hold our nerve and offer a range of options for them to consider and they don't meet that we should call their bluff. We don't owe the Cats or Smith anything.

[hujsh]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

There are plenty of options to get a reasonable deal done.
They could do something with other clubs to move up the order a few spots.
They could canvass some of their players to see if they would like to be moved to us in a package pick and player deal.
And they could just offer their R1 pick this year and a F1.
They've chased Smith for a while and have obviously met his terms so the onus is on them to put forward a competitive offer to us.
Of course they want to get him on the cheap but they're a a flag contending team and we shouldn't gift them Bailey Smith for a significant undervalue.

There will be a level of flexibility but at some stage during these discussions there could be a scenario where we say sorry but that doesn't work for us.

They may feel if they just hold out we will fold and there seems to be a lot of our supporters open to that scenario because apparently something is better than nothing. But if we hold our nerve and offer a range of options for them to consider and they don't meet that we should call their bluff. We don't owe the Cats or Smith anything.

Or they can offer their first like Josh Jenkins says and be done. So simple

[ledge]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

There are plenty of options to get a reasonable deal done.
They could do something with other clubs to move up the order a few spots.
They could canvass some of their players to see if they would like to be moved to us in a package pick and player deal.
And they could just offer their R1 pick this year and a F1.
They've chased Smith for a while and have obviously met his terms so the onus is on them to put forward a competitive offer to us.
Of course they want to get him on the cheap but they're a a flag contenting team and we shouldn't gift them Bailey Smith for a significant undervalue.

There will be a level of flexibility but at some stage during these discussions there could be a scenario where we say sorry but that doesn't work for us.

They may feel if they just hold out we will fold and there seems to be a lot of our supporters open to that scenario because apparently something is better than nothing. But if we hold our nerve and offer a range of options for them to consider and they don't meet that we should call their bluff. We don't owe the Cats or Smith anything.

We forget in all of this he did his knee and didnt play this year , thus we know life without him and it was still an improvement on last year. Cats will play the knee thing as an excuse for a lesser deal.
With how drafts and trades are done it’s impossible to know the deal will be done at this moment. Have the cats and dogs already come to an agreement but the cats need to shuffle things around to get it done, I think that’s more the scenario and why it want be the first on their list.

[Bornadog]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

Depressing time of year if you're not a destination club

Not for me. I look forward to the drafting of young kids. Trade week feels like a bunch of rejects being shopped around. Unless there is a massive deal like the Boyd deal, I am not fussed.

[Axe Man]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

Clayton Oliver’s future could be decided on Thursday amid Geelong links, Jack Martin chooses Cats

Delisted Carlton forward Jack Martin is set to play for Geelong next season as Melbourne prepares to finalise a decision on whether to trade superstar onballer Clayton Oliver.

Martin, 29, will continue his career at Geelong after picking the Cats over Fremantle in the firm belief the forward can overcome his soft-tissue injuries at a third club.

It means the Cats could yet secure Martin, Western Bulldogs’ jet Bailey Smith who officially asked for a move to Geelong on Wednesday and, while it still remains a long shot, potentially Oliver pending Melbourne’s final call on the midfielder’s future either Thursday or Friday.

Talks at Melbourne on Thursday between the club’s chief executive officer Gary Pert, football boss Alan Richardson, coach Simon Goodwin and list chief Tim Lamb about Oliver could determine his future.

While a trade to Geelong would be difficult, Melbourne is seriously considering whether it is best for both parties if the Demons finally cut the cord on Oliver as part of an aggressive cultural and salary cap reset.

The Herald Sun revealed online on Wednesday Geelong will nab Martin as a delisted free agent, meaning the club does not have to give up anything in a trade for the goal kicker.

The Cats are limited in their ability to offer up a suite of picks for Oliver as its top pick in this year’s draft, number 15 as it stands, will be headed to Western Bulldogs in the Smith deal.

It means Melbourne could target a player from Geelong if it progresses over the next 48 hours, but key forward Shannon Neale is unlikely to be dragged into the situation after breaking into the Cats’ senior side late this year.

The Herald Sun first flagged Geelong’s serious interest in Oliver in March this year. Adelaide is not in the mix this year after having some interest last year.

Melbourne had planned to keep Oliver as late as this week, but the brilliant midfielder is weighing up a move to the Cats after being considered for a trade for the second-straight year.

Pert called at least one other club about Oliver with Melbourne’s list management committee’s full support and approval.

But the move could have serious ramifications for the relationship between Oliver and Melbourne as there is a strong view the contact from Melbourne has upset the four-time best-and-fairest winner and three-time All-Australian by dangling him as trade bait again.

Oliver is managed by two of the most powerful and influential agents in football, Paul Connors and Nick Gieschen.

The Herald Sun understands Oliver is excited by the potential move to Geelong, however, the Cats will not drive the trade after meeting him on Tuesday.

While the Cats would be happy to consider securing the superstar onballer most likely at a significant discount, Geelong is adamant the ball remains in Melbourne’s court.

The addition of Smith, Martin and Oliver, who is one of the best players in the game when fit, would be a huge boost to the Cats’ engine room for 2025. The club would shuffle payments in its salary cap to fit the trio.

If Melbourne explores a trade, the Cats could offer up its future first-round pick for Oliver, but the Demons would almost certainly request a player as part of the deal.

In any case, the Demons would also have to pay some of Oliver’s seven-figure wage for him to move to Geelong.

But Melbourne may decide on Thursday to keep Oliver for another year despite some unrest if the club cannot secure adequate compensation in a two or three-club trade.

It remains a messy situation for Melbourne which has lurched from the Christian Petracca crisis to the latest trade period circus about Oliver.

The Demons are completing two reviews into its football department and its board operations.

[GVGjr]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

Or they can offer their first like Josh Jenkins says and be done. So simple

Absolutely.
It's not like Josh the media person would have an ever so slight bias towards a club he played for (2 games) and was a part time ruck coach for.

[Boots]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

Depressing time of year if you're not a destination club

Sure is - nothing like the annual "see Geelong poach another superstar" fortnight.

This is the key point. We know that we have CHASED a few big names - Barrass, Holmes, Houston, SDK, even Butters is being reported - and then looking at some smaller names in XOH, Peatling, etc. I don't think the club can be accused of not trying, or not recognising the need to improve the list - but unfortunately those players chose not to come to us.

I'm sure that our contract terms and pitch were good - but when someone else is whispering "we'll give you another farm" it's a lot more enticing than "here's a brown paper bag filled with tortilla chips".

I have to say, I'm beginning to wonder if we have some fairly bad culture problems TBH.

You can definitely lay a fair bit of our woes at the feet of a couple of arch-individualists (Dunkley and Smith) but players definitely talk to one another across clubs and we just don't seem to have any pull in that regard. There's a whiff of the cult about us sometimes - all the stuff the players say about being close-knit and keeping the outside noise off their radar. Some of it might be self-preservation but I wonder if maybe they isolate themselves a little, and are good at isolating or freezing out others.

I dunno. I'm clutching at straws. I just wish we could pursue and land a medium-to high-value trade target once in a while, given how many developed-from-the-draft players we seem to lose. The feeling when we landed Treloar - and the sheer excellence he's brought since - have been really exciting.

The fact is we have now lost two key players in our lineup right when we were pushing for success and they were part of that success. We lost Dunks after 2021 and immediately dropped down the order, and now he's playing the same defensive role in a new club that has gone from strength to strength, while we lose games for want of a defensive mid. Smith is a hard-running outside mid and I'm not sure we replaced him as a player - we just seemed to make a (fairly brittle) set of structural changes to offset his loss. We trade Dunks to Brisbane and they make two of the next three Grand Finals. We trade Smith to Geelong when they are already a kick away from a Grand Final... and we're gonna take a crappy pick and an F1 and watch as they go on to win it all in 2026.

Compare us to Brisbane - another club with an ex-Hawthorn Clarkson apprentice at the helm. They have a similarly excellent F/S hand to us (Ashcroft anyone) and some decent high draft picks (McLuggage springs to mind, and Zac Bailey) but have also managed to lure in a dual brownlow-winner (Neale), a big-name if mercurial forward (Daniher), and our B&F, as well as somehow score Cameron from the Crows. What is the offer they can make that we can't?

The other comparator is Melbourne - another small club that has struggled to lure in big names but has drafted well (Fritsch, Pickett, Oliver, Petracca) - May and Lever being obvious exceptions. But 'Brand Petracca' stinks a bit like Dunkley and Smith. Petracca, like Dunkley, is US-sports-obsessed, and like Smith appears to be a bit of a narcissist. He nevertheless elected to stay with his home club despite their obvious culture problems (drugs, poor off-field behaviour, peacocking players being pricks to one another, a coach with a gambling problem and poor boundaries) and the fact they treated him appalligly. He may yet pull a Dunkley and leave next year. Oliver might also be out the door. But again - what are they doing that we're unable to do? They aren't bleeding premiership players the way we have (Hamling, Stringer, Dalhaus, Dunkley, Smith...) despite an apparently terrible culture, and though they don't seem to be able to keep up the high-value trades, they aren't losing players either.

This has all been a terribly long-winded way of saying the loss of Dunkley and Smith has made me start to dread both trade week and draft week and it's making me disillusioned about football.

[chef]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

Not for me. I look forward to the drafting of young kids. Trade week feels like a bunch of rejects being shopped around. Unless there is a massive deal like the Boyd deal, I am not fussed.

I guess thats cool if you aren't interested in trying to improve the team.

[azabob]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

There are plenty of options to get a reasonable deal done.
.

Darcy, Grant and Power need to be pragmatic with what Geelong can reasonably offer V what is fair compensation.

The Oliver issue also adds to the complexity, and we potentially run the risk of shooting ourselves in the foot as we did with the Josh Dunkley trade - where Brisbane offered a pick which we refused then they went split that draft pick.

From a list management perspective, we cannot send Smith to the preseason draft.

We need pick 15 to help bring in more young talent. The draft is deep, and we need top end selections.

[Bornadog]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

This has all been a terribly long-winded way of saying the loss of Dunkley and Smith has made me start to dread both trade week and draft week and it's making me disillusioned about football.

All teams have players coming and going, it is the nature of the beast. Look at Collingwood, stuffing up list management and losing Grundy and Treloar but going on to win a premiership.

I refuse to label us as "poor old me, we never get the good players" We are a well run club with amazing facilities and very competitive. The best way forward is drafting good young players.
I expect us to be top 4 next year.

[Bornadog]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

I guess thats cool if you aren't interested in trying to improve the team.

That's actually a ridiculous statement.

We improve the team through astute drafting not with rejects from other clubs. If we land a big name player, great, but I am not going to get depressed if we don't.

[azabob]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

Sure is - nothing like the annual "see Geelong poach another superstar" fortnight.

I have to say, I'm beginning to wonder if we have some fairly bad culture problems TBH.


This has all been a terribly long-winded way of saying the loss of Dunkley and Smith has made me start to dread both trade week and draft week and it's making me disillusioned about football.

Dunkley and Smith have left for the exact opposite reasons. Dunkley could no longer walk past the behavior of some of our players.

Smith, Hunter were a part of this. Prior to them Dahlhaus, Stringer, Biggs, Liberatore were also issues at times.

Money and success can do wonders in walking past cultural issues - Case in point is Petracca. Now the success is gone Petracca is struggling to accept Melbourne's cultural issues. You also need to remember both Dunkley and Smith were out of contract, Petracca is in the early stages of a huge contract. Melbourne holds all the cards and cannot afford to trade him. What they can do is move on their problem children in Oliver, Hunter, Joel Smith - in a bid to appease Petracca like we tried to with Dunkley.

Google Brisbane's issues prior to Fagan being appointed - you will be shocked to see how many people left that club in the matter of seasons.

Honestly Boots, don't let trade week (which hasn't even started) make you disillusioned with football. Trade week is a byproduct, at the end of the day premierships are built via the draft and astute money ball trades such as Shane Biggs (obviously I can't ignore the Tom Boyd trade, but I will as it doesn't suit my narrative).

#BeMoreBulldog

[chef]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

That's actually a ridiculous statement.

We improve the team through astute drafting not with rejects from other clubs. If we land a big name player, great, but I am not going to get depressed if we don't.

It's ridiculous to suggest only rejects move through trade week.

[Axe Man]

Re: Trade Rumours 2024

That's actually a ridiculous statement.

We improve the team through astute drafting not with rejects from other clubs. If we land a big name player, great, but I am not going to get depressed if we don't.

Come on BAD, you can't just purely go to the draft and not trade in anybody other than big names, that would be a guaranteed way to fail.

Would we be better off without "rejects" like Duryea, Bramble, Lobb, Jones? Would we have won a Premiership without Hamling and Biggs? They don't all work but neither do draftees. Draft in talent and trade for needs.