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You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships every day. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity. ― EpicurusComment
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Re: Essendon under AFL investigation regarding 2012 fitness program
Had a chuckle on SEN, Kevin Bartlett had an expert on corporate governance.
Said a few in high places had to go.
Bomber fans call up bagging corporate governments.
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Re: Essendon under AFL investigation regarding 2012 fitness program
Was driving home from work and flicked to the AM's to hear that super popular ranga in blonde surfers hair talking to Cornsey and Stephen Rowe.
Stop me if I am a bit slow on the uptake and it's old news, but towards the end of their lengthy talk about the drug issues he mentioned that apparently Richmond were secretly shopping around Dustin Martin in the last trade period. He questioned why they would do that and then basically said "I'll let you fill in the gaps, but it's obvious why they wanted rid of him". I know Crackermanis is three levels of screwjob at the best of times, but DM's name seems to get forwarded a lot when people theorise about who the "one player" is from the other club. Seemed a very interesting story.
I know this is a little tangent from the specifically Essendon theme of this thread, but didn't think it deserved it's own.Comment
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Re: Essendon under AFL investigation regarding 2012 fitness program
There's been whispers about Dustin Martin's behaviour outside of the confines of Punt Road for the best part of 18 months.
The way the inuendo is structured it's fairly obvious those who perpetuate it seem to think ilicit substances are involved (most likely Ice), and with that comes further inuendo about the type of characters he could potentially be involved with.
There's a bit of a distinction between what type of character could be associated with certain drugs versus others. Speed and Ice are quite often associated with Bikies, and it seems that blackmarket performance enhancing ones are starting to fall into that level of control as well.
I'll qualify the above by stating I'm not directly implicating Martin on any level. Rather, I'm presenting some potential conclusions based on what's been reported in the media.TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.Comment
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Re: Essendon under AFL investigation regarding 2012 fitness program
If it's Ice as in bikie street Ice it's going to have a pretty detrimental effect on him and not
be particularly performance enhancing in the long run i wouldn't have thought (if that is why people are suggesting he is taking it? ) Anyone I know who has taken Ice ends up absolutely rooted.Comment
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Re: Essendon under AFL investigation regarding 2012 fitness program
From what I've read the bikies are dipping their toes in the performance enhancing sphere of peptides and other readily available drugs via the blackmarket that do the same.
Ice is a funny one for elite sports people. If they can have a blow out over the weekend post match, there's no reason why they can't get themselves to rehab sessions after no sleep, and crash and burn prior to their next major training session. There's always the potential for it to get out of control, just like it did with Ben Cousins. Though he kept it together for a very long time.
Having that structured lifestyle for the vast majority of the week helps professional sports people leave Ice and other substances as a recreational pursuit. In many cases it's when people don't have such a regimented lifestyle that it can spiral out of control.TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.Comment
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Re: Essendon under AFL investigation regarding 2012 fitness program
Back on topic:
THE AFL and the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority are unlikely to send Essendon players' samples overseas for testing at the two state-of-the-art laboratories that have the highest chance of detecting whether they took the relevant banned substances.
While the head of ASADA has said that only the laboratories in Cologne, Germany, and Montreal, Canada, have the capability of testing for performance-enhancing peptides, the AFL is understood to have been advised that the samples from players may well disintegrate over the journey.
Experts have suggested to the AFL that the substances in question - thought to be peptides that release human growth hormone within the body - might not be sufficiently preserved in Cologne or Montreal. But the decision on whether to send Essendon samples overseas would be made by ASADA, which controls the testing, rather than the AFL.
If the samples cannot be sent overseas, then the AFL and ASADA would almost be entirely reliant on detective work - and the evidence of players - in determining whether Essendon has taken any performance-enhancing substances.
Advertisement Essendon has maintained that its players took only vitamins as far as it knows and has been increasingly confident about its prospects of being cleared in the investigation. The club's players have not yet been interviewed by ASADA or the AFL, and will play in the NAB Cup on Friday evening.
The limitations of testing in investigating potential performance-enhancing drugs has been a massive issue for sport internationally, and the most spectacular successes in detecting cheating - the Lance Armstrong case, and the BALCO case involving Marion Jones - have all been on the back of detective work and testimonies of people involved, rather than testing.
The former head of ASADA, Richard Ings, said that sending samples overseas for testing had been standard practice when he ran ASADA, but that the test for peptides was ''brand new'' and this might explain complications. The samples also would be being tested for a second time, he said.
''It's a very, very standard thing to do … this is a brand new test. There may be something special about it, that is different to ones I used before. I wouldn't be doubting the AFL - I mean, if there's a chance to get them tested and get it done, they would do it. Also, it would be ASADA that would be making that decision, it would not be the AFL.''
Sports doctor Peter Brukner wrote in The Sunday Age on the weekend that the HGH ''precursors'' that are central to the question of whether Essendon breached the drug codes were, ''in effect … undetectable.''
Brukner said that athletes had turned to these precursors, or peptides that release HGH in the body, because ''they are extremely difficult to detect''.
''Instead of taking the banned and possible detectable HGH, those intent on improving performance have turned to the growth hormone precursors as an alternative,'' he said. ''There is no evidence that these substances work, but certainly there is a theoretical rationale behind their use.''
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-new...#ixzz2KpVcH7sUTF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.Comment
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Re: Essendon under AFL investigation regarding 2012 fitness program
Drug testers at Essendon training
ESSENDON was greeted by drug testers as it opened gates for fans and media to watch training on Thursday morning.
It was the first open session the Bombers have held since the supplements scandal broke more than a week ago.
Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority testers wearing white polo shirts and carrying black clipboards approached individual players for tests as they left the track.
It's understood ASADA was conducting routine tests and it was nothing out of the ordinary.
The Bombers play Collingwood and the Western Bulldogs in the opening round of the NAB Cup on Friday.
ASADA testers were also spotted at Whitten Oval Thursday morning.FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.Comment
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Re: Essendon under AFL investigation regarding 2012 fitness program
Interesting to read a different perspective:
Although there is little doubt he has a vested interest, it does beg the question of whether peptides are fundamentally that different to painkillers that are commonplace within the AFL? Peptides themselves are only performance enhancing when the hard yards are actually put in - not that different to creatine, BCAAs, oral protein supplements etc.ROBIN Willcourt is a devotee of peptide hormones. He has taken them and says they turned his life around. He often prescribes them and says they could potentially save billions in public health costs.
He also believes professional athletes should be allowed to take them to help repair their bodies.
As one of Australia's most experienced and respected specialists in anti-ageing medicine, Dr Willcourt is also scathing of the way the Australian Crime Commission characterised the emerging market for peptide hormones in its report into organised crime and drugs in sport.
"The ACC has created a nightmare," Dr Willcourt told The Australian. "It is a chimera. It is a linking together of sometimes disparate groups that might have an association or something that is common. Putting a big lasso around them and corralling them into the same pen is not appropriate. That is what they have done."
...Dr Willcourt, the director of the Epigenx Integrated Medicine clinic in Melbourne, said he was questioned by the ACC as part of its 12-month intelligence operation, Project Aperio, and quizzed at length about his former business partner Trent Croad, a retired AFL player, and Stephen Dank, a sports scientist at the centre of the latest doping crisis.
"The ACC just wanted to know about . . . Trent and Steve Dank," he said. "I have to say I had no firm knowledge of any of it."
On Mr Dank, Dr Willcourt said, "never under any circumstances did I hear a thing about him doing anything wrong".
Croad invested and worked at the Epigenx clinic after Dr Willcourt treated him for chronic injuries from his football days.
Dr Willcourt began his medical career in obstetrics and gynaecology and said his knowledge of hormones provided a natural segue into anti-ageing medicine, which advocates testosterone and growth hormone treatment to combat the effects of reduced hormone production in older men.
He spent most of his career in California, where anti-ageing medicine is well established. He returned to Australia as the medical director of Adelaide's Queen Elizabeth hospital before moving to Melbourne to establish a private practice.
Dr Willcourt said he was concerned criminals could infiltrate sport through the sport supplement industry. He said there was misinformation about the use of supplements and elite athletes were confused about what they could take under the World Anti-Doping Authority code.
Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority investigators have yet to establish whether the treatment program overseen by Mr Dank last year at Essendon breached the WADA code. Mr Dank denies he administered any banned substances to any players.
Dr Willcourt regularly prescribes two growth hormone boosting peptides banned by WADA and listed in the ACC report, CJC 1295 and Hexarelin. He said both should be legal for elite athletes and that WADA had a poor understanding of human growth hormone, which was more beneficial in helping athletes to heal than run faster.
"People should be allowed to repair. We have got it wrong because we are so afraid there might be some competitive edge and somehow that seems unfair and unsportsmanlike."Western Bulldogs: 2016 PremiersComment
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Re: Essendon under AFL investigation regarding 2012 fitness program
I know you've answered your own question here, but it does point to another question - if Essendon hierachy are found to be in the clear about what their players were taking, should they be sacked for gross incompetance?
I want the leaders at the Bulldogs - on and off the field - to know what the players are putting into their bodies, as many legal supps can have side effects that are worth noting (ie shortness of breath with GABA) and clubs have a duty of care towards players than extends beyond merely monitoring on-field performance.Western Bulldogs: 2016 PremiersComment
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Re: Essendon under AFL investigation regarding 2012 fitness program
Agree completely mate, and to be honest the most glaring issue out of the whole saga is the poor governance shown by Essendon's management. I don't think too many heads will roll, and most likely Weapon McGee and Dank will take the fall as rogue operators. The Essendon supporter group will swallow that, but they'll be so full any more BS won't be digested and further stuff ups will result in severe supporter backlash.
Shouldn't the club doctor be signing off on everyting that's pumped into a clubs' players anyway? I think that's the elephant in the room for the Essendon football club, and other clubs that have been lucky enough to have avoided any scrutiny to this point.
There's absolutely no excuse for a clubs medical team not completely understanding what's happening with its players medical or rehabilitation treatment, and reporting everything of the sort to those managing the football department.TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.Comment
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Re: Essendon under AFL investigation regarding 2012 fitness program
IV drip use at Windy Hill enough to breach doping law
ESSENDON seems certain to be found guilty of a breach of the AFL Anti-Doping Code if even one player admits being given legal intravenous infusions at Windy Hill.
Whether those infusions carried legal drugs or banned peptides, it is the manner in which they entered they body that would breach the AFL's code.
The AFL's code makes it clear intravenous infusions are "prohibited except for those legitimately received in the course of hospital admissions or clinical investigations".
Those breaches of the code - "prohibited methods" - are viewed as just as serious as using "prohibited substances", and attract a two-year ban.
It is alleged Essendon players were taken over the road from Windy Hill to a Botox clinic and given intravenous drips.
In his 7.30 TV interview this week, former Essendon staffer Stephen Dank said that the players had intravenous injections, not drips or infusions.
Injections are allowed if the volume of the syringe used is less than 50ml and the substance is legal.
"Oh, look they had intravenous injections for vitamin B and vitamin C, which are quite compliant with the WADA code," Dank said of Essendon's players.
But ASADA will investigate whether players were also given infusions, the use of which has been illegal since 2005 under the WADA code. The AFL's Anti-Doping Code refers to the intravenous infusions in the Chemical and Physical Manipulation section.
WADA's own documentation explains the ban on intravenous infusions since 2005, saying athletes can use drips to take steroids.
"IV infusion could provide a potential route for the administration of infused substances," it states.
Integrity officers for all clubs?
WADA's medical information supporting its ban on intravenous drips makes it clear that medical uses for intravenous drips must be "associated with medical emergencies and in-patient care".
One legal expert yesterday said on the condition of anonymity: "It is prohibited to have intravenous infusions. The allegation is they had them all year. It doesn't matter if it's water, or saline, or (steroids), the method being used is the issue."
Former ASADA boss Richard Ings told the Herald Sun yesterday Essendon could not justify intravenous injections as necessary for medical purposes, because prior approval was needed.
"Any athlete or player or trainer who needs to use a banned substance or banned method must get pre-approval from the Australian Sports Medical Advisory Committee before their treatment, and there is no retrospectivity," he said.
While the ASADA and AFL investigation into Essendon and biomechanist Dank could take months, there is some hope for Essendon.
Ings yesterday expressed doubt about the potential for blood from Essendon players to be flown across the world for tests on peptides. And the Australian Crime Commission conceded on Thursday it did not collect any information from wire taps about doping in sport during its 12-month investigation.
It means Dank was not caught in any incriminating evidence during phone conversations, and the players are unlikely to be found taking PEDs through blood tests.
Dank and Essendon continue to deny that any performance-enhancing drugs were used.
Essendon players could hope to use the AFL's own Anti-Doping Code to argue for a full discount, or "elimination" of their potential penalty. The AFL's code, which closely mirrors the WADA code, has a clause that provides for no penalty if the player can prove they bore "no fault" for drugs entering their system.
Both codes state the case must be "truly exceptional", but the AFL's rule 14.4 states the period of ineligibility can be eliminated if an individual "bears no fault of negligence for the violation". The clause is inserted for players who have their samples sabotaged.
AFL deputy chief executive Gillon McLachlan said last night the league has made contingency plans for a 17-team competition this year should Essendon be unable to compete.
"I think it is our responsibility to canvass and plan for every scenario," McLachlan said on Channel Nine.
"There is a technical scenario where, if every allegation was true and you took out and interpretation of the code and you took a certain set of timings then that could be true, so you have to plan for that."
But speaking on Channel Seven league boss Andrew Demetriou stated his confidence that Essendon would play out the 2013 season uninterrupted.
At this stage we've got nothing that indicates otherwise," Demetriou said.FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.Comment
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Re: Essendon under AFL investigation regarding 2012 fitness program
If I hear Richard Ings name mentioned one more time… he's the Michael Carr-Gregg of PEDs already.Comment
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