Well Ruck Me.

[GVGjr]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Another contingency is Scache and defensive tactics to negate Max Gawn and his ilk. Not ideal by any stretch but Boyd was seconded from the forward line so Scache must be in the plans if English is injured.

And given we didn't replace Redpath either that would leave us with a small forward line. Schache should only be rucking on rare occasions.

[Doc26]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

I think it depends on their experience, durability and versatility not to mention ability but to me based on the above we are down by at least one.

Gary, I couldn’t have put my summation any better in how I see our ruck position going into 2019.

I don’t see it as a numbers issue but one of readiness and quality to compete this season against those clubs that we’re hoping to leap frog this season.

Port Adelaide might be a good example given that they were more than happy for Jackson to leave given that they didn’t have a spot for him on their list.

Paddy Ryder, Charlie Dixon, Dougal Howard and Justin Westhof made up their ruck stocks for the 2018 season with only 1 of these being a recognised ruckman (Ryder) who like Tom Boyd has had his fair share of injuries.

They saw a list management priority for ‘19 to go hard for a recognised ruckman, and as it played out now a premiership ruckman in Scott Lycett.

Whilst I am very bullish on Tim English to make this position his own in the future, he has not yet shown that he can match it physically or with experience.

Jackson was a very much respected utility at Port but primarily is a defender or at best a stop gap / changing ruckman.

Tom Boyd of course remains the great dilemma in this discussion as we simply have no clue what will become of him in 2019, something we were aware of through 2018.

Sweet we all hope is the surprise but is only by chance on our list given that any other Club could’ve listed him before falling to us as a rookie. Hopefully he’s our Dean Cox story.

[GVGjr]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Doc, on top of the Port players you listed they also had Sam Hayes who was a recruited as a 1st ruckman and Jack Watts who had done some work when he was at Melbourne to provide a chop out option before they acquired Lycett.
I think they also had Billy Frampton as a rookie as well

Some Port supporters I know blame the loss of Ryder at a critical time for their poorer than expected performance last year

It's interesting the approach clubs take with ruckman. The likes of West Coast and Port traditionally don't mind having plenty of options and we seem to have a different approach

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Tom Hickey cost next to nothing from a trade perspective, although WCE gave him 3 years. I don't know enough to speak to his game, but if we matched the 3 years and the pick shuffles. Then we get a seasoned ruck, and probably Free Agemcy compo with Roughy then going to WCE, which more than covers the shuffles. So we get Hickey for Roughy, instead of nothing of value for Roughy. But we must not have been interested in either Hickey or gaining another ruck.

** As I said, I don't know enough about Hickey to comment too much on him as a player. But options were floating around with multiple rucks on the market.

[Bornadog]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

can I ask you why you think English and Trengove are enough for us?

Where did I say that?

I am asking with any team - how many rucks should be on the list? Your answer is depends on the stage of the player's development.

In our case, (I am guessing), the MC sees 4 as enough. I know Boyd is injured, but they were probably banking on him recovering. Personally, I would have held on to Roughead.

[GVGjr]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Where did I say that?

I am asking with any team - how many rucks should be on the list? Your answer is depends on the stage of the player's development.

In our case, (I am guessing), the MC sees 4 as enough. I know Boyd is injured, but they were probably banking on him recovering. Personally, I would have held on to Roughead.

So if it ends up being a poor diagnosis on Boyd and he now needs to be conservatively managed do you agree we are light on?
I don't think 4 is enough when two of them are very inexperienced and one of them is more of a spare parts player and the other has an injury that curtailed his 2018 season.
A lot needs to go right for us or we are looking at some other tricky options to cover a position that has caused us some angst in the last 2 years.
We lost 5 KP type players at the end of the season in Campbell, Roughead, Campbell, Adams and the inexperienced Collins and replaced them with just a rookie listed ruckman. Campbell and Roughead rucked and Redpath at times pinch hit in the ruck

We were either horribly too tall last year or we've got it right now but to me we've taking a risk that we didn't need to.

[soupman]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

I think our ruck stocks are ok. We have 3 who have all shown enough at senior level, and a rookie who is ready to go and has the physicality to compete. Don't forget that if it all goes to shit there is still a mid season draft where we can grab some big boy to carry us through to the end of the season. I think that's our 5th Ruckman, that the club is hoping it doesn't have to use.

Really, it doesn't make sense to grab another one. You suggest getting Hickey, but what would he be other than another Campbell, possibly on a higher wage. Considering he would be at best our 3rd choice ruck, probably fourth behind Boyd Is consider that a waste of a list spot and a non minimum wage

Any additional ruck we recruit now has to be able to play elsewhere, otherwise they are too big a liability to carry in a squad that already has a specialist ruck in the reserves.

In terms of actual matchday. I am confident we will settle on the best combi being Trengove as main ruck with English playing forward. Both give us flexibility of change the balance of runtime each gets and can bolster our defence or attack. Trengove is able to wear down and work over the other ruck and be competitive when resting. English is able to run off the other ruck and I am confident the club would be happy to play him anywhere on the field.

I don't think clubs will play two genuine rucks, especially with the interchange cap meaning runners are valuable. Maybe the second tall forward trends more towards being a ruck type but I can't see clubs being too keen to all of a sudden buck the trend of the last 10 years and embrace having two clumsy tall blokes who are liabilities half the time in their team.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

I'm not so concerned with our ruck stocks - if it were me, I'd play Trengove with Schache a chop out early in the season.

One of Trengove or English spending not insignificant chunks of time forward with Schache doesn't excite me - I wonder if they've developed English's forward craft this summer?

[Mofra]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Does this mean sides now need a really tall perhaps less mobile defender?

Who do we play on Sinclair up forward in Round 1? Sinclair is pretty handy up forward and a good mark.

Quirky fact: In 2009 the only player on our list to play on an opposing ruckman from every team was.... Lindsay Gilbee!

Has an opposition ruckman ever gotten ahold of a team in the forwardline?
I'd back in a rebounding type on an opposition ruckman with Crozier / Wood excellent interceptors and Cordy / Naughton playing as genuine KPDs who can chop out if our zone is set up correctly.

We are open about attacking from defence which is what most teams do. I'd be ropable if we changed our set up if an 'adequate' KPF was in the opposition F50

[Mofra]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Tom Hickey cost next to nothing from a trade perspective, although WCE gave him 3 years. I don't know enough to speak to his game, but if we matched the 3 years and the pick shuffles. Then we get a seasoned ruck, and probably Free Agemcy compo with Roughy then going to WCE, which more than covers the shuffles. So we get Hickey for Roughy, instead of nothing of value for Roughy. But we must not have been interested in either Hickey or gaining another ruck.

** As I said, I don't know enough about Hickey to comment too much on him as a player. But options were floating around with multiple rucks on the market.

Hickey is mobile, quick for his size and lacking in the aggression which is really what makes an effective ruck (and FWIW I also think Boyd lacks aggression).
He's a no 2 ruck who might be suited to the modern game but he is not a no 1 ruckman.

We have English and Trengove who can play no 1 ruck (and yes English has played 8 games but it would have been more had he been healthy last yer). Trengove has played ruck all summer.

Boyd is a decent no 2 option if fit - but he's not and that's a worry. Sweet will debut but I don't think he's anywhere near ready to assume regular AFL duties.

In short if Boyd was fit our ruck stocks would be ok, but he's clearly not so we're arguably one mature option short. Occasionally a mature journeyman can surprise and add value to a list i.e. Dawson Simpson at GWS. I suspect Campbell gets games and fills his role this year.

[GVGjr]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Hickey is mobile, quick for his size and lacking in the aggression which is really what makes an effective ruck (and FWIW I also think Boyd lacks aggression).
He's a no 2 ruck who might be suited to the modern game but he is not a no 1 ruckman.

We have English and Trengove who can play no 1 ruck (and yes English has played 8 games but it would have been more had he been healthy last yer). Trengove has played ruck all summer.

Boyd is a decent no 2 option if fit - but he's not and that's a worry. Sweet will debut but I don't think he's anywhere near ready to assume regular AFL duties.

In short if Boyd was fit our ruck stocks would be ok, but he's clearly not so we're arguably one mature option short. Occasionally a mature journeyman can surprise and add value to a list i.e. Dawson Simpson at GWS. I suspect Campbell gets games and fills his role this year.

We might just have it covered but given when we were trading and recruiting there must have been doubts on his availability and we decided to not address it. For the sake of one additional ruckman or even a part timer we could have easily covered it.

[S Coast Simon]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Does anyone else think that a more open ground will benefit the smaller more mobile ruckman. Even being able to take it out of the air aside. Surely a hybrid type more like Trengove will benefit by being more agile and quicker around the ground. Might be why we didn’t get to concerned about it. In saying that I love the look of sweet. We need someone out there hurting the opposition. Remember how good Hudson was at accidentally smashing and crushing people. Hit ball - hip and shoulder the first opponent you see. That is my recipe for a ruckman

[Bornadog]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Does anyone else think that a more open ground will benefit the smaller more mobile ruckman.

Open Ground? It will be open for about 10 seconds after each centre bounce.

[Dry Rot]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

I love the look of sweet. We need someone out there hurting the opposition.

Love reading that about at least one of our players. Aside from Cordy, who has the inner mongrel?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Love reading that about at least one of our players. Aside from Cordy, who has the inner mongrel?

Cordy is in his own class. Although Gowers looks like he might have that streak in him, early days. Same with Young at both levels, but early days too. Hopefully Dunkley adds complete mongrel to that hulking frame.