List Management 2015

[azabob]

Re: List Management 2015

GVGjr, technically you are correct that we didn't draft a round one pick last draft, but I think bringing in Boyd counters that. Having said that I think we should keep our first round pick this year.

[Greystache]

Re: List Management 2015

I don't know anything about that. His on-field behaviours are not great though - it stands out when everyone else is 'all in' and he sticks out a hand at a ground ball rather than putting his head in there. I think Hunter has great natural game-sense and kicks it well but until he learns how to play real 'team' footy - and I couldn't really care how many possessions he gets at Footscray - he shouldn't be picked in the 1's again.

And that's the crux of the issue for me too. Well that and the when we don't have the ball we have 17 players fanatically applying pressure, laying tackles, and gut running defensively, Hunter again stands out as being the exception.

It's all good and well to fancy yourself as a flashy outside mid/forward, but when you're not a line breaker, don't cut teams up with disposal, nor impact the scoreboard regularly then you'd want to be a defensive animal or you'll find yourself playing VFL.

He reminds me so much of his cousin Mark McVeigh, and he'd be playing reserves as well in this day and age.

[Remi Moses]

Re: List Management 2015

Yeah, that worries me too.

Ditto for me. The player doesn't dictate where he plays, and Luke B loves versatility
Jake should stop whinging, and start performing .
One of the issues for him is that he didn't have a pre-season, and they'll want the planet plus the entire solar system and The Bont

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: List Management 2015

HYPOTHETICAL:

If we do trade our first pick, we need to give Dalrymple the opportunity to snare a gun mid with a top 20 pick. Obviously, we'd need to offload some quality to do so.

I don't love the idea, but if we were to bring in Carlisle, is Talia surplus and would he afford us a top 20 pick?

If Talia could get us a top 20 pick, absolutely.

Roberts is better than Talia and if we got Carlisle we'd only need one of them, given Hamling and Z Cordy are solid third tall types. We can draft another young key back if need be, too.

A few things concern me about Talia:

- His short reach. For a key defender, he has short arms which makes spoiling difficult. A lot of the key forwards now days are all 196cms+ which makes Talia undersized too.

- Disposal. It's improved but it's still bad, particularly under pressure.

- He's slow and his agility is average. He's OK running in straight lines and has good endurance but he'll always struggle v smart forwards, ie. he was poor v Pavlich for this reason.

For mine, a Carlisle/Roberts/Hamling trio gives us a great mix of height, reach and athleticism with solid skills. If we could get a top 20 pick for Talia whilst attaining Carlisle, it'd be a no brainer for me.

[Dry Rot]

Re: List Management 2015

Roberts is better than Talia

Interesting.

I don't see enough to make a call, but interested to see other's opinions.

[1eyedog]

Re: List Management 2015

Interesting.

I don't see enough to make a call, but interested to see other's opinions.

I have him slightly in front of Talia in terms of best 22 but like you I feel the sample size is small. I'm not sure why Talia was dropped to be honest, I thought he'd been good but there you go.

We've been talking about bringing in Carlisle and releasing Roughie but why haven't we played Tails and Roberts together so we could play Roughie in the ruck
sooner rather than go through the whole Cordy experiment.

[lemmon]

Re: List Management 2015

I'm not sure your post really has any relevance at all to mine, actually I'm pretty certain it doesn't.

I'm not rubber stamping his endurance or his running capacity, I was talking about his lack of pace. Sure he may have other strengths but pace isn't one of them. To be fair to the guy he hasn't even been a flashy goal kicker has he? He's been very underwhelming. I'm happy to rubber stamp him as a player capable of playing deep forward or nowhere atm; however, given his age and potential ceiling I'm also more than willing to retain him so he can develop the ability to play higher up the ground. Maybe he has trade relevance given his age and potential.

It's great that he's winning ball at VFL level but really I was discussing his relevance to the senior team, heck, Andrew Hooper dominated at VFL level.

Fair play, no problems with that, I just think it's a bit of a misnomer calling him a flashy goal kicker when all VFL minutes are in the midfield and the vast majority of the time he spent in the AFL side was on the wing. I agree it hasn't worked. With his skill set aerobically and lack of pace he really needs to find more ball on the inside which has body should be mature enough to start doing.

[boydogs]

Re: List Management 2015

Roberts is better than Talia

Different players, Roberts is a better mark but slow whilst Talia can match it with the Riewoldt types

[GVGjr]

Re: List Management 2015

GVGjr, technically you are correct that we didn't draft a round one pick last draft, but I think bringing in Boyd counters that. Having said that I think we should keep our first round pick this year.

I actually acknowledged that in my summary. 2 picks in 2013 (picks 1 and 4) but nothing in 2014.

[1eyedog]

Re: List Management 2015

Fair play, no problems with that, I just think it's a bit of a misnomer calling him a flashy goal kicker when all VFL minutes are in the midfield and the vast majority of the time he spent in the AFL side was on the wing. I agree it hasn't worked. With his skill set aerobically and lack of pace he really needs to find more ball on the inside which has body should be mature enough to start doing.

Agree with that and I retract the term 'flashy goal kicker' because it is borne out of frustration with him rather than an accurate assessment of his output. As someone else mentioned earlier he needs to play team football and I guess that was my clumsily made point.

He'll struggle to break into the side for a while I'd say given that players in there atm are pretty versatile. What was disappointing in his last outing was when he had the ball he seemed to be in two or three minds what to do with it, consequently, he turned the ball over with dinky little kicks around his body.

He's young though and there's not much doubt he has sublime skills.

[Happy Days]

Re: List Management 2015

For mine, a Carlisle/Roberts/Hamling trio gives us a great mix of height, reach and athleticism with solid skills. If we could get a top 20 pick for Talia whilst attaining Carlisle, it'd be a no brainer for me.

Great post TBB.

We won't get a top 20 pick for Talia (we won't), but it would be worth getting in St Kilda's ear about it. They've kind of shot themselves in the foot by recruiting a really neat, nice little defensive prospect in Bruce and turning him into a gun young forward.

I actually rate Talia; he was fantastic up until the Freo game and I would be more than happy to keep him if and when none of this eventuates, but if we get Carlisle then he's the one we could make some dividends on.

[stefoid]

Re: List Management 2015

I actually acknowledged that in my summary. 2 picks in 2013 (picks 1 and 4) but nothing in 2014.

I dont have any problem with using a first round pick on a proven quality young player, particularly with our age profile the way it is. Draft picks are always risky - if you can get the player now that you hope the draft pick might eventually turn into, then its a no-brainer to do it. Its just eliminating the risk.

Trading for unproven players or players with a track record of non-performance, on the other hand, is risky, so unless you are paying virtually nothing, I dont see it helping much in the long term. Hamling we got for nothing. Biggs for a neglible downgrade. these are good trades. Our trading since JMac came on board has been prudent (whether by accident or design) I think the lowest pick JMac has traded away (apart from Toyd) was pick 43 for Stevens. (edit: no we got Crameri, for a 2nd rounder, but that was another case of a proven young player - we knew exactly what we were getting). Pick 43 for Stevens was far riskier than pick 27 for Crameri.

[The Doctor]

Re: List Management 2015

Must keep Talia regardless of whether another KP comes in.

He is a pure defender and will be very good at it. He is the logical replacement for Morris who must be close to retirement. With Talia, Roberts, Hamling and possibly Carlisle we will have for once some depth in our KPD personnel, especially when we can add Roughead to the mix. How often have we been able to say that?

[Twodogs]

Re: List Management 2015

Must keep Talia regardless of whether another KP comes in.

He is a pure defender and will be very good at it. He is the logical replacement for Morris who must be close to retirement. With Talia, Roberts, Hamling and possibly Carlisle we will have for once some depth in our KPD personnel, especially when we can add Roughead to the mix. How often have we been able to say that?

And Easton Wood. In fact I reckon Wood will take Morris spot. But Talia stays because he is a beast and we don't have another beast to play in defence.

[Mantis]

Re: List Management 2015

I actually acknowledged that in my summary. 2 picks in 2013 (picks 1 and 4) but nothing in 2014.

But do draft numbers actually mean anything once the players are inside your 4 walls?