Tim English and the ruck dilemma

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Was listening to the Salty Bulldog's latest episode this morning, they put out an idea of having Naughton spend more time in the ruck (presumably with English going up forward) this week given English hasn't exactly impressed the last couple of weeks.

Anyone else keen to see this on Friday?

- BNC

[Bornadog]

Was listening to the Salty Bulldog's latest episode this morning, they put out an idea of having Naughton spend more time in the ruck (presumably with English going up forward) this week given English hasn't exactly impressed the last couple of weeks.

Anyone else keen to see this on Friday?

- BNC

Hope not

[Mantis]

Was listening to the Salty Bulldog's latest episode this morning, they put out an idea of having Naughton spend more time in the ruck (presumably with English going up forward) this week given English hasn't exactly impressed the last couple of weeks.

Anyone else keen to see this on Friday?

- BNC

If Carlton continue to use Cripps as the 2nd ruck we should be looking to use Darcy in that role to look for an advantage,

Darcy is no doubt our number 1 target inside F50 but we can’t become too predictable by directing all kicks to him, so having him play in the ruck too isn’t a bad thing.

However not against Naughts having the occasional run on ball to mix things up.

[Critter]

I had posted some thoughts about Tim in the training thread. Probably the wrong place, so I have repeated the here.

There is something I wish to raise and I can understand it is something that is unlikely to gain much support.

Tim English often catches my eye at training, for the wrong reason. He is becoming increasingly lackadaisical and rarely seems to get out of low gear. I feel he's becoming a bit of a loper. In our long lead/long kick, hybrid match sims, he very much trains within his comfort zone. Similarly, in close handball sessions, he is easy to read and is often caught in tackles. I think the coaches need to raise the intensity around him.

[Aidan7557]

I had posted some thoughts about Tim in the training thread. Probably the wrong place, so I have repeated the here.

There is something I wish to raise and I can understand it is something that is unlikely to gain much support.

Tim English often catches my eye at training, for the wrong reason. He is becoming increasingly laconic and rarely seems to get out of low gear. I feel he's becoming a bit of a loper. In our long lead/long kick, hybrid match sims, he very much trains within his comfort zone. Similarly, in close handball sessions, he is easy to read and is often caught in tackles. I think the coaches need to raise the intensity around him.

I did see him on that good for footy show on youtube. He hinted at concussions making him double think about backing into packs and things of that nature. Probably explains why he has dropped a lot of marks in the first couple rounds. Absolutely not covering the ground nearly as well as his AA year, not sure what that is down too, feels like Timmy is a long way off getting back to that level of play. Not sure what the coaches can really do. It's just his nature he isn't aggressive and can be laconic.

[Rusty12]

Tim as a forward is not the solution. If you don't like Tim as a ruckman, fine, that is your call.
Talk of Tim as a forward is dumb; there is nothing to support why this would work, other than wishful thinking.
Playing Naughton in the ruck more than just as needed, just as dumb.
Seriously.

[GVGjr]

Was listening to the Salty Bulldog's latest episode this morning, they put out an idea of having Naughton spend more time in the ruck (presumably with English going up forward) this week given English hasn't exactly impressed the last couple of weeks.

Anyone else keen to see this on Friday?

- BNC

No, we need both Naughton and Darcy to spend as much time forward as they can.

[doggies ftw]

No, we need both Naughton and Darcy to spend as much time forward as they can.

We do, that’s the problem with the output we’re getting from Tim right now. We literally have to hide him at times and it kills our forward structure - was fine when Marra was there but not to be

[jeemak]

We do, that’s the problem with the output we’re getting from Tim right now. We literally have to hide him at times and it kills our forward structure - was fine when Marra was there but not to be

Can you show me the stats where Tim spends less time in the ruck than other rucks? I keep reading this type of thing alongside the use of "being dragged from the ruck" and it intrigues me.

I've chosen some comparisons literally based on who has come to mind, and it shows that Tim's time on ground is about the same plus minus as other rucks:

Grundy
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=17&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=3812&fid1=S&fid2=S

O'Brien
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=2&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=4109&fid1=S&fid2=S

Meek
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=11&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=6531&fid1=S&fid2=S

De Koning
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=4&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=6504&fid1=S&fid2=S


I'm just interested in where this is coming from, because every ruck needs a rest, and at 80.5% of TOG and mostly in the ruck it's probably about right? What do the other teams do when their rucks are off the ground? Not play someone else like we do with Naughton or Darcy?

[Rusty12]

Can you show me the stats where Tim spends less time in the ruck than other rucks? I keep reading this type of thing alongside the use of "being dragged from the ruck" and it intrigues me.

I've chosen some comparisons literally based on who has come to mind, and it shows that Tim's time on ground is about the same plus minus as other rucks:

Grundy
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=17&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=3812&fid1=S&fid2=S

O'Brien
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=2&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=4109&fid1=S&fid2=S

Meek
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=11&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=6531&fid1=S&fid2=S

De Koning
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=4&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=6504&fid1=S&fid2=S


I'm just interested in where this is coming from, because every ruck needs a rest, and at 80.5% of TOG and mostly in the ruck it's probably about right? What do the other teams do when their rucks are off the ground? Not play someone else like we do with Naughton or Darcy?

Agree. Are they suggesting he is hiding on the bench for 20% game time? He isn't hiding forward, that's for sure.
It is easier to follow if they just say, I don't rate Tim English, and leave out all of the justification.
Naughton wasn't in the ruck to compensate for Tim, Tim was resting his usual rotation, and clearly, Darcy was the more dangerous forward.

[jeemak]

Agree. Are they suggesting he is hiding on the bench for 20% game time? He isn't hiding forward, that's for sure.
It is easier to follow if they just say, I don't rate Tim English, and leave out all of the justification.
Naughton wasn't in the ruck to compensate for Tim, Tim was resting his usual rotation, and clearly, Darcy was the more dangerous forward.

Naughton was also put into the ruck to get himself in the game - not just to relieve English. After a really good week in round one, he was patchy throughout a lot of Friday's game, which is fine, given his preparation.

I'm genuinely interested in getting to the bottom of the perceptions here and not wanting to put shit on them. I've always said English has his shortfalls, and I was critical of him for different reasons after round one (i.e. lack of aerial presence, etc.), so interested in following this through with the OP.

[doggies ftw]

Can you show me the stats where Tim spends less time in the ruck than other rucks? I keep reading this type of thing alongside the use of "being dragged from the ruck" and it intrigues me.

I've chosen some comparisons literally based on who has come to mind, and it shows that Tim's time on ground is about the same plus minus as other rucks:

Grundy
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=17&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=3812&fid1=S&fid2=S

O'Brien
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=2&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=4109&fid1=S&fid2=S

Meek
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=11&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=6531&fid1=S&fid2=S

De Koning
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=4&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=6504&fid1=S&fid2=S


I'm just interested in where this is coming from, because every ruck needs a rest, and at 80.5% of TOG and mostly in the ruck it's probably about right? What do the other teams do when their rucks are off the ground? Not play someone else like we do with Naughton or Darcy?

Watch the games man Jesus, there’s been multiple occasions now he’s been banished from the ruck in game. It’s clear we’re going to him less and less in the most important stages of the game, stats (at least the stats we have access to) clearly won’t tell you this - just try watching a game

[jeemak]

Watch the games man Jesus, there’s been multiple occasions now he’s been banished from the ruck in game. It’s clear we’re going to him less and less in the most important stages of the game, stats (at least the stats we have access to) clearly won’t tell you this - just try watching a game

Or....you bias against him makes you see things that aren't actually happening.

Give me a break with this "watch the game stuff", BTW. All I'm asking for is something to back up what you're saying, and that's reasonable.

[Happy Days]

Can you show me the stats where Tim spends less time in the ruck than other rucks? I keep reading this type of thing alongside the use of "being dragged from the ruck" and it intrigues me.

I've chosen some comparisons literally based on who has come to mind, and it shows that Tim's time on ground is about the same plus minus as other rucks:

Grundy
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=17&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=3812&fid1=S&fid2=S

O'Brien
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=2&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=4109&fid1=S&fid2=S

Meek
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=11&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=6531&fid1=S&fid2=S

De Koning
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=4&type=A&pid1=6345&pid2=6504&fid1=S&fid2=S


I'm just interested in where this is coming from, because every ruck needs a rest, and at 80.5% of TOG and mostly in the ruck it's probably about right? What do the other teams do when their rucks are off the ground? Not play someone else like we do with Naughton or Darcy?

Give it a rest nerd. What about the stuff that isn’t happening?

[jazzadogs]

You can actually check number of ruck contests on AFL app - bit more accurate measure of time in ruck than TOG or CBA.

English 71
Darcy 11
Naughton 7
Freijah 4

Darcy Cameron 70
Cox 23

So if you use the pies split as the template, Naughton actually just took contests from Darcy - not English.

I also did watch the game and this was how I was seeing it live as well.