Tim English and the ruck dilemma

[hujsh]

You can actually check number of ruck contests on AFL app - bit more accurate measure of time in ruck than TOG or CBA.

English 71
Darcy 11
Naughton 7
Freijah 4

Darcy Cameron 70
Cox 23

So if you use the pies split as the template, Naughton actually just took contests from Darcy - not English.

I also did watch the game and this was how I was seeing it live as well.

So less English being banished from the ruck and more Darcy being the hot forward and Naughton needing a way into the game.

[doggies ftw]

Ruck contests tells a better picture - it’s never been just about this week though, Cox is one of the few match ups he can win. It’s about last year too.

Also what the stats don’t show is when he’s pulled from crucial ruck contests in the heat of the game, which has happened on multiple occasions now. For most teams it’s about rotating your ruck and keeping them fresh for when you need them, for us we regularly pull him from the ruck when we need to win critical
clearances. Raw stats will never tell the full picture

[Rusty12]

Think I need the head explosion emoji.
Did anyone say Raw Stats tell a full picture? I think they were used to disprove random statements with no substance, which you doubled down on.
Can you provide examples of when he was pulled from crucial ruck contests, in favour of a ruckman with far inferior ruck skills?
If you can find them, where they events or patterns?

[Grantysghost]

Naughton did go in late v the Pies. I'm not sure that was because TIm wasn't doing ok though that could be a long bow. It certainly wouldn't be a tenable situation would it slinging your #1 when we think it's a critical time? I'd think he'd be dropped if that was the case.

[doggies ftw]

Think I need the head explosion emoji.
Did anyone say Raw Stats tell a full picture? I think they were used to disprove random statements with no substance, which you doubled down on.
Can you provide examples of when he was pulled from crucial ruck contests, in favour of a ruckman with far inferior ruck skills?
If you can find them, where they events or patterns?

No I cannot remember the specific minutes across the last 18 months that this has happened and I don’t care near enough to trawl through game data to look them up, I’m not saying it happens every week I’m saying in my opinion it’s been a pretty clear pattern for anyone paying attention, across multiple games that we’ve lost faith in Tim and had to hide him to try something different in the middle. I’ll make sure to note them down going forward to keep you happy!

You’re right there’s nothing to see here, our ruck situation is elite there’s absolutely nothing to be concerned about. Other teams are shaking in their boots thinking about the match up against big Tim Tam, whose just in ripping form and has been for the last 25 games.

[JanLorMill]

No I cannot remember the specific minutes across the last 18 months that this has happened and I don’t care near enough to trawl through game data to look them up, I’m not saying it happens every week I’m saying in my opinion it’s been a pretty clear pattern for anyone paying attention, across multiple games that we’ve lost faith in Tim and had to hide him to try something different in the middle. I’ll make sure to note them down going forward to keep you happy!

You’re right there’s nothing to see here, our ruck situation is elite there’s absolutely nothing to be concerned about. Other teams are shaking in their boots thinking about the match up against big Tim Tam, whose just in ripping form and has been for the last 25 games.

Everyone seems to have forgotten his ruck performances in finals the last 2 seasons, in the 21 gf, eliminations vs GWS and the saints previously. He isn't the only reason we have lost those games but it certainly hasn't helped.

[Rusty12]

LOL. What am I right about? I said there is nothing to see here, and our ruck situation is elite?
You might be having conversations with yourself?

[Bornadog]

Everyone seems to have forgotten his ruck performances in finals the last 2 seasons, in the 21 gf, eliminations vs GWS and the saints previously. He isn't the only reason we have lost those games but it certainly hasn't helped.

You also forget how he was AA Ruckman in 2023

[JanLorMill]

You also forget how he was AA Ruckman in 2023

The AA is very hit or miss. Very opinion based. Results of finals aren’t.

[Bornadog]

The AA is very hit or miss. Very opinion based. Results of finals aren’t.

Also in those finals were another 20 odd players. You can't blame those losses on one person.

AA year - stats don't lie either

[JanLorMill]

Also in those finals were another 20 odd players. You can't blame those losses on one person.

AA year - stats don't lie either

Never said the result was all his fault though he has never played well in finals.
Stats in the AA year? Which ones did he win?

[Bornadog]

Never said the result was all his fault though he has never played well in finals.
Stats in the AA year? Which ones did he win?

His ruck stats were HO, HTA in top 4, also compared to other rucks 7th for clearnaces, number one for marks, 4th in Contested Poss, 2nd in total disposals, 3rd for inside 50s, 4th in contested marks etc etc.

Overall a very good year.

Anyhow, this is my last post in this thread, because there are too many haters and I can't be bothered anymore.

[Bulldog Joe]

Also in those finals were another 20 odd players. You can't blame those losses on one person.

AA year - stats don't lie either

I know it is another issue but stats do not tell the truth.

In the words of Benjamin D"israeli

There are lies
There are damned lies
and there are statistics.

[NAUGHTY100]

I really think like many that Tim needs a 2nd ruck so he can spell forward , where he can be very dangerous , many think Darcy should stay forward and not ruck , and i tend to agree partially with that right now , but it makes me think back to Paul Salmon the Essendon giant , he played mainly forward in his early years and killed it , at the time the Dons had Madden in the ruck , and Salmon was talked about as a generational football the same as Darcy is now , Essendon didnt want to move him from the forward line as he was there go to goal kicker , but he finally did start rucking and became an AA ruckman at both Essendon and Hawthorn , so it does happen and as Darcy gets bigger and stronger i think we will see him rucking a lot more and allowing English to go forward with great success . Win win situation .

[Sedat]

I feel just like Seinfeld did when he started the abortion debate in Poppy's restaurant, and then quietly watched as all hell breaks loose on every table thereafter.