Tim English and the ruck dilemma

[Scorlibo]

I am not going to argue, Tim is not at his best and has his flaws as a ruckman.
Not your quote, but as below, pinning a loss on one player is pretty hard to do, and is usually just bias.
Does Tim have poor performances that impact a result negatively? of course, more often than we would like last year, yes.
When you say Tim has had his 2nd and 3rd worst-rated games since 2020, what are you referring to? I know in my own ratings he has been really poor, however his game against Carlton was okay.

Yes, the focus on Tim, and on any given single player, is over the top. I've been a backer of him and still am, but just find his recent form cause for concern.

I'm referring to the official AFL player ratings.

[Uninformed]

Tim is definitely off his best, but is still pretty good. He will regain his form in time.

[Mantis]

Tim is definitely off his best, but is still pretty good. He will regain his form in time.

Define what you mean by pretty good?

Rightly or wrongly back in 2023 Tim was the AA ruckman, fast forward just over a year and he’d struggle to be in the competitions best 10 rucks… it’s been a big drop.

[GVGjr]

Define what you mean by pretty good?

Rightly or wrongly back in 2023 Tim was the AA ruckman, fast forward just over a year and he’d struggle to be in the competitions best 10 rucks… it’s been a big drop.

Last year might have some allowances given how much training he missed with those headaches but it's vastly more difficult to defend his form line this year because outside of a couple of weeks he never missed a session.
We do need to see more from him.

[EasternWest]

Yes, the focus on Tim, and on any given single player, is over the top.

I think it's fine and it's definitely commensurate with the pay packet. Nobody is analysing Bramble with the same scrutiny as Tim, but then again, Bramble didn't cost us a packet and also demand to be the no. 1 guy in a certain position.

[mighty_west]

I think it's fine and it's definitely commensurate with the pay packet. Nobody is analysing Bramble with the same scrutiny as Tim, but then again, Bramble didn't cost us a packet and also demand to be the no. 1 guy in a certain position.

Is that 100% true though? McNeil and VDM have copped plenty over a period of time and not exactly earning the big bucks Tim is and not being the number 1 guy in their possies?

[Uninformed]

Define what you mean by pretty good?

Rightly or wrongly back in 2023 Tim was the AA ruckman, fast forward just over a year and he’d struggle to be in the competitions best 10 rucks… it’s been a big drop.

Pretty good - def: 'Doing what the team needs him to do better than any other available option.'

I am not suggesting he is at his best, or even the best in the comp. Even then, his past performances show that he has potential for improvement

But he is doing his job to the satisfaction of the selectors. If he gets over whatever is holding him back he will be even better.

VDM is not the AA forward, but he is doing a pretty good job.

[EasternWest]

Is that 100% true though? McNeil and VDM have copped plenty over a period of time and not exactly earning the big bucks Tim is and not being the number 1 guy in their possies?

That's a solid point

[jeemak]

For mine Tim’s problem is that he isn’t as effective around the ground. He doesn’t out body other rucks and doesn’t get enough of the ball around the ground. He was a great player to transition through and would consistently get over 20 touches with 80% meaningful.

for some reason this has changed. Maybe game plan maybe personal. But with seeing TDC running havoc and Tim nowhere to be seen is the largest issue I have right now. I think he just needs to go back to basics and become that outlet kick then turn and go and burn the oppo with licking a few goals.

even his goal kicking ability seems to have gone. Just like his confidence

I've been thinking about the TDK accumulation and am wondering how much of a good thing it actually is for Carlton given they're relying on a ruck to be a major possession getter and that he goes at ~62% efficiency (Tim goes at ~71%). He's also going at roughly ~330m a game versus Tim at ~155m.

Also TDK's contested possessions are intimidating, at 16.3 per game on an average out of 23 touches for the season.

Go back to Tim's 2023 Tim's possession count is still four behind TDK's this year, but a lot of other metrics are aligned. TDK's metres are about seventy more than Tim's however, Tim's efficiency was around 73%, which is insane for a ruck. Tim's contested possessions in 2023 were ~9 versus ~4 this year.

A few takeaways:

- The hottest ruck property at the same age now is less tidy than the 2023 AA. He's either too dominant or Carlton doesn't have anyone else to get the footy and move it forward, either way it's dirty footy

- Tim's contested work just isn't up to scratch versus the best, if that's still a key metric for rucks (I assume it is, we have won a few, Carlton haven't and I'm wondering if less ruck influence on a game in general play is a new trend)

- Outside of ruck contest work Tim has dropped away remarkably, which is what a lot of us have worried about (though perversely some have hung onto). Given his ruck work has remained on par with his best season, I'm again wondering what the ruck role actually means nowadays given he's not getting his hands on it, which wouldn't be the worst thing if he spewed up the footy like TDK does

Interesting times, the above answers and means nothing.

[AshMac]

Late to this convo but agree completely with the the thread. Against the pies and blues he would be in our bottom 6 players on the field - better v Carlton than pies though.

I would have thought the eagles came hard for him considering they’re desperate for a ruck. I’m wondering if he has much credit in the league at the moment. The fact he can’t take a mark against a player a ft shorter than him at the moment is a real Concern.

it screams of being very low on confidence which can either change or be catastrophic. One thing I don’t think he’ll ever have is that hunger and competitiveness of a Naughton or Darcy which is half the reason he loses tap work in my
opinion

[mighty_west]

To me it seems his lack of confidence has a lot to do with his issues with concussions, for all we know he could be just one more hit to the head to giving the game away, unfortunately it could be similar with Anthony Scott's concussion yesterday in the VFL in just his first game back and with how serious this has become, and for many players it seems that decision to step away might not always be the of the player, you just have to wonder how much that plays in their minds in every single contest.

[G-Mo77]

We're done but that was a lot better.

[G-Mo77]

We've run out of time. Frustrating game. That 2nd quarter was the real difference in this one.

[G-Mo77]

Shit I'm posting in the wrong thread.

[macca]

Shit I'm posting in the wrong thread.

Your sentiment still aligns with this thread.

English really poor in the last 2 mins and got beaten by Voss with that last goal. Very very frustrating to watch.

We could not run out that game when Freo had literally 2 interchange and 1 man down.

English had to give our team first use of the ball in the last 2 mins and he failed.