Tim English and the ruck dilemma

[JanLorMill]

There are only 18 #1 rucks in the comp. They all get paid decently.

I just gave you 4 that aren’t well paid. Add who ever Geelong plays there.

[Bornadog]

I'm with the apparent minority who thought that English battled hard against a better ruck. I thought he initiated contact more than usual and attempted to take front spot more than usual. Xerri is top 2 genuine contest ruck in the comp.
English was disappointing with his around the ground work.

Checked the numbers -

Xerri - 93 ruck contests (29 CBA), 51 hitouts. 5 clearances, 17 disposals, 4 marks (2 contested), 7 tackles.

English - 78 contests (25 CBA), 25 hitouts, 3 clearances, 11 disposals, 4 marks.

Darcy - 23 contests (8 CBA), 6 hitouts, 2 clearances

Freijah - 8 ruck contests, 0 hitouts

Darling - 15 contests (2 CBA), 1 hitout, 1 clearance

Xeri also 13 HTA, English 6.

Still don't get the love for bash and crash ruckman. North Lost, Sweet all over Cameron and lost by 91 points, Luke Jackson all over the Geelong rucks and they lost.

The ruck role is not as important any more

[jazzadogs]

What do you think Sweet/Meek/Darcy Cameron are getting paid? Maybe 100k less than English? And probably based on contracts signed before they were #1 rucks.

I dont think any #1 rucks are getting less than 700-800k, and I'm pretty sure English's final contract was reported to be under 900k.

His contract is fine.

[Happy Days]

You guys know we won last night right

[JanLorMill]

Everything was perfect

[jazzadogs]

You guys know we won last night right

Would have won by more if Crossley played though...

[Rusty12]

Someone had this topic pre-typed and was hanging out to post it, as soon as Tim had a slow start vs Xerri, the big beast.
Bringing Crossley into the argument completely undermined everything else mentioned was lost after that.

Did Xerri beat Tim last night? For sure.
If Tim had kicked that goal and hung onto a couple of those marks, and maybe not fallen over in a few others (Which was a bad look), then it would not have been so bad.

I do like the idea of Gardner as a key tall, back-up ruck; the more time Darcy is forward, the better.

[jeemak]

Agreed. Like I said in my match day brief summary, Tim wasn't great and needs to atone next week for parts of his game - particularly the aerial efforts that weren't strong enough.

[Grantysghost]

Someone had this topic pre-typed and was hanging out to post it, as soon as Tim had a slow start vs Xerri, the big beast.
Bringing Crossley into the argument completely undermined everything else mentioned was lost after that.

Did Xerri beat Tim last night? For sure.
If Tim had kicked that goal and hung onto a couple of those marks, and maybe not fallen over in a few others (Which was a bad look), then it would not have been so bad.

I do like the idea of Gardner as a key tall, back-up ruck; the more time Darcy is forward, the better.

Yes this is a pretty logical take. Tim lost, the big Caroline Springs boy Xerri was super. However, Tim didn't get overwhelmed physically like I've seen in the past. He looked a bit rusty with his skills which is unusual for him. Maybe the interrupted pre-season didn't help there.

Statistically although we lost the stoppages/clearances on raw numbers we actually only had two less effective clearances and outscored North from stoppage source by 14 points.

[jeemak]

I just gave you 4 that aren’t well paid. Add who ever Geelong plays there.

I reckon they're probably paying Blicavs (or at least were), a two time best and fairest and All Australian in a premiership year a fair amount of coin. But he's their utility/ ruck. I doubt Stanley, their first choice ruck, has been paid poorly over time but is probably on a lower amount now. In each case there's a common theme.......they're not bash and crash rucks.

[The Underdog]

Pretty sure De Konning played the majority of the ruck time on Saturday. Well beaten in the hit outs but was in the Cats best. 25 possies and a goal. Had a very good game.

[jeemak]

My comment was more or less reflective of the last few years. Both are in their twilight.

Interesting about De Konning, pretty much the type of game I want from English to be effective.

[FrediKanoute]

Spot on Boots. I have been saying this forever: Hitouts mean stuff all if you don't give your team the advantage. Xeri is a good tap ruck and also good at HTA. His 51 HO didn't win the game.

English just needs to get back to improving his around the ground work. As far as being bullied, I thought English held his own in those stakes last night, he was more aggressive than I have ever seen him. A couple of times Xeri was just too strong.

I am in this camp. The thing is around the ground today he was almost a non-entity. Hoping its a fitness thing and he works his way into the season, but his presence just wasn'tt there.

[Vred]

Said it once, will say it 100 times.

He is not a ruck, he is a fwd/ruck who somehow plays 90% of his time as a ruck.

*IF* We are to lose JUH at the end of this year we must go and find a mature, insanely good #1 ruckman and then play him as our key ruck with English supporting Naugton and Darcy up forward. Darcy is far too good to be wasted in the ruck spot. English is killing our midfield with his lack of competitiveness.

[jeemak]

Wouldn't the fact we play him 90% of time in the ruck suggest he's a ruck?

Most of us agree he'd be the perfect second ruck/ forward, but we've not been able to land or keep a ruck who can influence the centre stoppages as much as everyone would like, but also add value around the ground........because they largely don't exist outside of a small few (of which English is one, at the top of his game).

My view on Darcy is different than most. I don't want him going stale up forward and only getting six or seven genuine looks at influencing a game each week. He doesn't have the legs of Naughton who can get up and back with repeat efforts. Get Darcy spending 40-50% of his time in the ruck and he's way more valuable for us.

[Before I Die]

Oh, if only we had a ruckman who could have dominated the hit outs this round like Sweet or Jackson, wouldn’t thot have been wonderful. I mean, look at the difference it made for Port Adelaide and Fremantle. Oh wait….
Tim didn’t have a great game, but the pile on in this thread is just over the top.

[JanLorMill]

Oh, if only we had a ruckman who could have dominated the hit outs this round like Sweet or Jackson, wouldn’t thot have been wonderful. I mean, look at the difference it made for Port Adelaide and Fremantle. Oh wait….
Tim didn’t have a great game, but the pile on in this thread is just over the top.

I’d rather a ruck that doesn’t go missing in finals.

[Bornadog]

I’d rather a ruck that doesn’t go missing in finals.

I would rather a team that doesn't go missing in finals.

[Grantysghost]

I’d rather a ruck that doesn’t go missing in finals.

He was very visible at the end in the semi v the Lions in 21 getting that free kick !

[Miti-Dog5]

Realistically I think we're in the same boat as about 12 or 13 other teams when it comes to the ruck. I like Tim and I think he does more good than bad, but he's gonna get beaten by the likes of Gawn, Xerri, Briggs, maybe a couple of others. At the the end of the day though, so is every other team that doesn't have one of those trucks. As long as we're winning games, I'm not too worried.