Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

[jeemak]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

Cameron has added fwd marking to his game and looks stronger and able to hold the number 1 ruck position

Cox is a tall forward who can provide chop out in the ruck. His actually an accurate kick

My point is, you don't need super ruckman, just someone who can provide a contest, keep a stoppage and give our mids first use of it. Instead we have not a number 1 ruck in English, who loses the hitouts against good ruck. Our mids work their backsides off to win the contest.

I don't really know what else they expect of Sweet, what is lacking in his game , other than his not agile, does not have great skillls for a big man, is an ordinary mark . Can he hold a number 1 ruck position though against bigger mature rucks ? We have the rest of the season to find out.

You forgot to mention that Sweet more often than not loses the hit outs.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

You forgot to mention that Sweet more often than not loses the hit outs.

But Rhylee West plays better with him in.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

Using either scores from clearances or games won as the stats of choice to justify an opinion on ruck selection is not where I would start. Both of those stats involve a huge number of variables. In the case of scores from centre clearance, it's not just the ruckwork, it's not even just the mids' input. It's the input of all players forward of the centre. And let's put the Port numbers in perspective - didn't two of those goals start from free kicks in ruck lotto? Those could just as easily go our way this week.

More to the point... I'm all for experimenting if our season goes down the drain over the next few weeks. In the meantime, this is the pertinent question for me:



We have a player who most consider to be the best in his position so far this year, he could very well be leading our B&F, and the potential for limiting his output should be a concern with this move. So where would he play?



Does this mean him playing as a centre bounce midfielder Danjul? He's very good below his knees for a ruckman, but I don't think he should play there ahead of Smith, Macrae or Daniel.

I could see him having an impact on a wing, and if the experiment were to go ahead that's where I'd fancy trying him. I doubt he'd perform to the same standard at ground level, but he could probably have just as much impact in the air.

I'd contend there is no position where he'd make the same marginal impact he gives us now in the ruck. Anywhere else and we're getting less of out Tim.

Now that wouldn't be such a big deal if we had Sean Darcy to bring into the mix at the hitouts, but Sweet isn't that player. It's debatable that he offers less than Tim does at the hitouts, given Tim's improvement in that area this year, and Sweet's lacklustre VFL season to date. On VFL form Sweet might be lucky to keep his spot on the list.

Well said.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

You forgot to mention that Sweet more often than not loses the hit outs.

Is the argument then really not Sweet v English, and more people want a Hudson/Nankervis type instead of English?

Sweet really hasn't shown enough to be given this level of love.

I'm trying to understand where the Sweet collective are coming from.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

Is the argument then really not Sweet v English, and more people want a Hudson/Nankervis type instead of English?

Sweet really hasn't shown enough to be given this level of love.

I'm trying to understand where the Sweet collective are coming from.

I don't mind Sweet but the biggest hole I see in the argument to bring him in isn't so much Sweet, but it's what we will lose around the ground from English. He owns it around the ground because he is up against ruckmen. Also, English isn't the best tap ruckman but he isn't the work. I am not up for stats in isolation but he has the 5th highest hitouts to advantage. Those who do not like his tapwork I believe are reading a lot into total hitouts and perhaps giving the rest of the midfield group an out when we concede clear run clearances.

[westbulldog]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

The antipathy towards giving Sweet a chance is stunning. Clairvoyance prevails because woofers just "know for certain" he is no good and won't ever make it - without him being given an opportunity, great stuff, post next week's winning lotto numbers while you're at it.

[jazzadogs]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

From 2022.

Bonts highest number of disposals in a game was 34. Sweet was the ruck with English.

Treloars highest number of disposals in a game was 34. Sweet was the ruck both times.

Wests highest number of disposals was 19. Sweet was the ruck.

West kicked 3 goals in a game and 2 twice. Who was the ruck in those games? Sweet.

It is called synergy.

[jazzadogs]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

I'm switching Bruce and Naughton before I'm putting Sweet in as #1 ruck ahead of English.

I have no issue with him, and agree that JOD/Jones are not doing enough, but I don't think he is the answer. I actually think Lobb has been fine as a 2nd ruck, but it's his time in the forward line which isn't working.

I just don't really see what problem Sweet solves.

[Danjul]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

Is the argument then really not Sweet v English, and more people want a Hudson/Nankervis type instead of English?

Sweet really hasn't shown enough to be given this level of love.

I'm trying to understand where the Sweet collective are coming from.

The team that was leading comfortably in the 2021 grand final might get into the finals this year. That would be on the basis of an easy draw. Not because we are winning well at the moment.

The suggestion is a tap ruckman might help. That?s what we did in 2021. We only have one to try.

unfortunately the club has refused to consider getting a good one. It has not been a component of the visionary game plan that has had us looking mediocre for most of the last 5 years.

The only consistent success since 2017 was when a worn out one fell into the team for a few games. Our first priority should be getting a good one.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

The team that was leading comfortably in the 2021 grand final might get into the finals this year. That would be on the basis of an easy draw. Not because we are winning well at the moment.

The suggestion is a tap ruckman might help. That?s what we did in 2021. We only have one to try.

unfortunately the club has refused to consider getting a good one. It has not been a component of the visionary game plan that has had us looking mediocre for most of the last 5 years.

The only consistent success since 2017 was when a worn out one fell into the team for a few games. Our first priority should be getting a good one.

Would you prefer Tom Campbell back and there as first ruck over English? Campbell smashed Sweet last time they were up against each other, last year in the VFL. Campbell had more hitouts and over 3x more disposals.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

Clear tray 3.... Where the fk is that?

[Grantysghost]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

The team that was leading comfortably in the 2021 grand final might get into the finals this year. That would be on the basis of an easy draw. Not because we are winning well at the moment.

The suggestion is a tap ruckman might help. That?s what we did in 2021. We only have one to try.

unfortunately the club has refused to consider getting a good one. It has not been a component of the visionary game plan that has had us looking mediocre for most of the last 5 years.

The only consistent success since 2017 was when a worn out one fell into the team for a few games. Our first priority should be getting a good one.

Ok that makes more sense to me thanks. Not sure I agree but I see your logic.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

The antipathy towards giving Sweet a chance is stunning. Clairvoyance prevails because woofers just "know for certain" he is no good and won't ever make it - without him being given an opportunity, great stuff, post next week's winning lotto numbers while you're at it.

Is it actually Sweet or a Sweet type WB?

His game just doesn't stack up to the love from my point of view.

Even in the training sessions I've seen when there was match sim English wasn't being smashed by Sweet in the taps. (I didn't see them all).

[Danjul]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

Would you prefer Tom Campbell back and there as first ruck over English? Campbell smashed Sweet last time they were up against each other, last year in the VFL. Campbell had more hitouts and over 3x more disposals.

I always liked Campbell. I can remember one of his early games where I was sitting behind the goals and he kicked the ball over my head a few times.

[Bornadog]

Re: Sweet Jesus: Should Jordan Sweet be our first ruck?

Sweet barely averages 10 disposals a game in the VFL. The gulf between the VFL and AFL is huge.

At this stgae Sweet is not good enough to be our number 1 ruckman. The ruckman's role has changed dramatically over the past 15 years. It no longer cuts it to be just good at being a tap ruckman. Rocket never played Minson (AA Ruckman) as he hardly touched the ball around the ground.