Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

[Happy Days]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

My criticism was not about Stacks performance (which was about what I expected); my criticism was people taliking it up into something it clearly wasn't.

Stack was dreadful! .

Buh?

[Mofra]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

No it's not because you know the answer to the question.

It's a question to make a poiint. All rhetorical questions are invalid according to your logic?

Maybe you should get off your high horse and contribute an opinion instead of sniping from the sidelines.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

Buh?

But I expected him to be dreadful

Stack was dreadful. He hasn't deserved a game through his performances at Willi; he got an encouragement award. That's OK, now he knows what to expect. I don't have a problem with that, Tim Walsh got one, so did Josh Hill, Jarrod Harbrow and Jarryd Grant. None of them played much better that Brennan.

[alwaysadog]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

Fact 1.
We won by plenty

Fact 2.
Stack was on debut (20 game rule applies)


They are the only things I can think of that has caused such a sugar-coating of Stack's performance.


Stack was dreadful! That was one of the worst debuts of all time - on a par with Mitch Hahn, Patrick Wiggins and Nick Bruton.

He fumbled everything in sight, managed to stuff up a soda of a goal by trying to kick it out of mid air (instead of putting his head over it I might add) and the only time he was near a tackle he gave up a soft free. Of his 2 kicks 1 missed the target by 30 metres!

He also had 4 clangers to go with his 8 touches.

Time for Brennan to go back to Willi and get a few decent games under his belt and win his spot back on merit.

As far as "he's one of those players that will rise to the higher standard" bullshit, it's never happened. Ever.


Can we have some perspective here?

When we win everyone are superstars; when we lose everyone's a dud.

Well SS you clearly put the lie to that football proverb, but I'm not sure you have not gone overboard about the negativities especially when comparing it to the worst ever first games. Did you actually mean that or were you just creating a dramatic effect to balance the over enthusiasm of some.

Perhaps you should answer your own question; "Can we have some perspective here?" because perspective seemed to be lacking in your post.

FWIW I think there were both positives and negatives to his efforts on Friday night and I've seen players who became regulars start far worse.

I take exception to the idea that somehow he had got a game based on other than merit. This is a slur on the coaches and there professional capacities that I don't want to contemplate, especially from a respected and senior member of this board.

Excatly what are you suggesting, that somehow he got preferred treatment, and what exactly are the things that you can only think of that caused such a sugar coating of his performance? These are matters that require further clarification/elaboration.

[Mofra]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

I take exception to the idea that somehow he had got a game based on other than merit. This is a slur on the coaches and there professional capacities that I don't want to contemplate, especially from a respected and senior member of this board.

I understand your point, however you wouldn't think that perhaps some debuts are awarded to give a player a real idea of what it takes to play at the highest level (ie for developmental reasons)?

It worked for Hill, Reid appears to be working very hard, Grant would have an idea of how much he needs to improve his fitness. Stack would appear to be in the same boat, given he was one of the worst Bulldog-listed players to play for Williamstown in the week prior to his debut.

I'd be surprised (well, I hope) if Stack didn't have a big pre-season at the end of this year, and I'd say the debut might be an additional motivating factor.

In that respect, I'd argue that the coaching / development staff know exactly what they're doing.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

The real test for Stack comes over the remainder of this season.

I'd expect him to go back into the VFL and put up some strong performances. If he continues how he's been performing up until now, then he's going to struggle to make it.

If he can string some solid performances at Willy together, have another big pre-season, perhaps he could emerge next year.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

I don't think Stack was dreadful neither do I think he was very good.
Did what I expected from a guy playing his first game.

[alwaysadog]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

I understand your point, however you wouldn't think that perhaps some debuts are awarded to give a player a real idea of what it takes to play at the highest level (ie for developmental reasons)?

It worked for Hill, Reid appears to be working very hard, Grant would have an idea of how much he needs to improve his fitness. Stack would appear to be in the same boat, given he was one of the worst Bulldog-listed players to play for Williamstown in the week prior to his debut.

I'd be surprised (well, I hope) if Stack didn't have a big pre-season at the end of this year, and I'd say the debut might be an additional motivating factor.

In that respect, I'd argue that the coaching / development staff know exactly what they're doing.

Moffra I know what you are saying and it is reasonable and well argued, but even in the circumstances you describe the player has had to earn such consideration, so it doesn't deal with the substance of my query to SS.

Eade has said frequently in his time with us that form in the affiliate is only one of the factors that are taken into account when contemplating promotion, performance on the track rates very highly in such considerations. In fact I think we debuted a player straight from or one week out of Werribee seconds because we couldn't get him time in the firsts.

SS comments were much more global in their scope and intimated other dimensions that he needs to respond to.

[alwaysadog]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

I don't think Stack was dreadful neither do I think he was very good.
Did what I expected from a guy playing his first game.

There was a call for perspective on this topic and Ernie you have provided it.

[Desipura]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

Things are either black or white with SS although we know he bleeds red white and blue!
Stacks debut was not quiet a Glenn Trimble type debut as SS stated (remember his wayward bowling, ended with 80 odd runs off 10 overs in his only game). Given Jack Watts was a number 1 pick, wonder what you thought of his debut against Collingwood?

[Mofra]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

but even in the circumstances you describe the player has had to earn such consideration, so it doesn't deal with the substance of my query to SS.

That's a fair point; if I remember correctly before Hill debuted, it was described as as much about reward for effort on the track as opposed to VFL form.

I haven't been to training so I can only assume Stacky had done some hard yards on the track which contributed to his selection.

[Mantis]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

I haven't been to training so I can only assume Stacky had done some hard yards on the track which contributed to his selection.

I can't really see how this could be the case.

Listening to Tom Harley last night on 'One week at a time' he explained that Geelong's training sessions are all about recovery with sharp skill sessions thrown in later in the week. Barry Hall backed him up and said Sydney's training sessions are pretty much the same. I would think our training would be the same especially taking into consideration the number of 6 day turnarounds with have had this year. So you would think that it would be pretty hard for a player to really bust his arse at training as the sessions wouldn't be run to allow it.

Personally I think Eade believes Stack will be a player and wanted to give him a taste in a game where his performance would have little impact on the end result even though he probably isn't ready yet.

[The Coon Dog]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

Personally I think Eade believes Stack will be a player and wanted to give him a taste in a game where his performance would have little impact on the end result even though he probably isn't ready yet.

I think you're right there.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

Well SS you clearly put the lie to that football proverb, but I'm not sure you have not gone overboard about the negativities especially when comparing it to the worst ever first games. Did you actually mean that or were you just creating a dramatic effect to balance the over enthusiasm of some.

Perhaps you should answer your own question; "Can we have some perspective here?" because perspective seemed to be lacking in your post.

FWIW I think there were both positives and negatives to his efforts on Friday night and I've seen players who became regulars start far worse.

Perhaps I have gone too hard on him but my intention was to repond to earlier posts rather than to attack Stack.

* He did fumble, though, a lot.
* He did cause 4 clangers.
* He did blow a gimme goal because he wasn't prepared to put his head over it and pick it up (I suspect this had more to do with the perception of how little time he had rather than any bravery issue, it just looked bad)
* Without having seen the replay yet I guess every possesion that wasn't a clanger was either received sideways or given off sideways.
* While playing forward I don't remember him leading at the ball carrier a single time.


Compare his first game to that of Tim Walsh. Walsh finished with 3 touches, 3 marks and a goal. All of Walsh's marks were presenting at the ball carrier and while his output wasn't much I was actually more encouraged by his first outing than Stack's.


I appreciate it was Brennan's his first game but you are either playing AFL or you are not. His contribution counts as much on the scoreboard as anyone else's and we don't get a 2 goal start because we're playing a first gamer. That performance would have been considered completely unacceptable from any other player in the side.

Excatly what are you suggesting, that somehow he got preferred treatment, and what exactly are the things that you can only think of that caused such a sugar coating of his performance? These are matters that require further clarification/elaboration.

Preferred treatment? Absolutely not.

We occassionally give players a debut game well before their form warrants it. Tim Walsh being the most obvious example, but plenty of others have as well. Jarrod Harbrow got promoted almost from VFL seconds. Hill and Lynch weren't exactly setting the house on fire in the VFL back in 2007.

I have no problem with this strategy, but you can't expect a kid who is only doing so-so in the VFL to step up to the plate in the AFL. It's simply not a realistic expectation.

Given Jack Watts was a number 1 pick, wonder what you thought of his debut against Collingwood?

Didn't see a minute of it.

[alwaysadog]

Re: Brennan Stack to Debut tonight

I can't really see how this could be the case.

Listening to Tom Harley last night on 'One week at a time' he explained that Geelong's training sessions are all about recovery with sharp skill sessions thrown in later in the week. Barry Hall backed him up and said Sydney's training sessions are pretty much the same. I would think our training would be the same especially taking into consideration the number of 6 day turnarounds with have had this year. So you would think that it would be pretty hard for a player to really bust his arse at training as the sessions wouldn't be run to allow it.

Personally I think Eade believes Stack will be a player and wanted to give him a taste in a game where his performance would have little impact on the end result even though he probably isn't ready yet.

I agree with the latter point which really supports my contention that there are more ways to earn a game than performance with the affiliate side alone.

As regards the former point there are a range of guys who talk frequently with the coach and ought to be more expert than I am about his approach to such matters. I probably get a brief chance once or twice a season, in a very good year.

Surprisingly we don't talk about the weather and when it comes to the younger not yet established players he will frequently refer to those who can do what he calls "amazing things on the track". Now he's the coach and I guess he ought to know who he is talking about, because he is at least to my understanding in charge of those events. It would be a strange thing to say if there was no opportunity to display anything while there.

It's about 5 weeks since I had my annual chat but one of the two players he referred to in that category was Brennan. Now I don't live inside Rocket's mind as some do in the case of Brian, but I'd say he is a fairly logical person.