Forward line 2012

[jeemak]

Re: Forward line 2012

Grant's development this preseason can't be gauged on his performances during the intra club match and the first round of the NAB Cup (I will need to admit at this point that I have not seen either - and I can understand posters doubting the credibility of this post due to that fact).

We don't know how tired he is, we don't know if he's carrying a niggle. From all reports he's been put in the gym to bulk up (if that's possible with him) and increase strength, and for a guy with his build that would impose a significant amount of mental and physical fatigue which would ultimately affect his performances to date.

Like a lot of players on our list, I'm prepared to see how he fares in the first half of the season before I make a judgement on whether he has improved on 2011.

Another point to note is that he relies heavily on delivery and getting the ball out in front or over the back due to his stature. Our forward line lacked system beyond going to Hall last year, and Grant suffered from that a lot. It will be interesting to see whether he can adapt to similar conditions this year.

[Maddog37]

Re: Forward line 2012

Grant is a leading forward that has to stay out of the way of the leading forwards. It is near impossible to play that role. He is fast etc etc but he is not a crumber naturally and has been forced into this role(6 foot 5 and crumbing???).

Play him at full forward and if he cant get a kick there then he is pretty much knackered.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Forward line 2012

Aren't you just agreeing with yourself in this post? You say that "I think the draft number definitely matters to fans". You then support this claim with statements that in some cases are just your opinion, then conclude with the line that "I agree with all this reasoning'. You also refer to Everitt being 'cut', which is just not true.

I am not trying to pick an argument and I think this is the first post of yours that I have ever disagreed with. But I do think you may have let your disappointment in Grant cloud your judgement a little with regard to his overall performance so far. He is guilty of fading out of the game too much and has a laconic style, but his defensive efforts are generally quite good, he makes good decisions when he has the ball and his hands are elite. Unless all of Jones, Panos, Skinner, Fletcher and Hill make exceptional leaps forward, Grant will be given time to blossom. Which I believe he will.

High draft picks who are not getting a game will often look to change clubs while they still have currency. This was the case with both Everitt and Ray, neither were cut by the club. Low draft picks don't have this currency so stay until they are cut by the club. With Mulligan the club has clearly decided that 200cm athletes on low salaries are worth persevering with for a few extra years.

Hi BID, interesting conversation.

IIRC, you are right, Ray wasn't cut, he was traded reluctantly, but Everitt, for want of a better word, was certainly cut, whatever the mechanics of him actually leaving the club. He was shopped around for two years and only some weird trading decisions meant he stayed a year longer than he should have, and the only reason he wasn't actually technically 'cut' from the list was, as you say, he had some trade currency. He contributed little to nothing in his last two years on our list (other than one half-good game as a back-up ruck in the last round against Collingwood a couple of years ago that gave us all a false sense of hope).

Grant's attitude (and GVG and a few other posters are of the same opinion) is not simply being 'laconic' or 'fading'. All young players do that and struggle at times, but the kid simply doesn't care at times. He came to the club with a big head saying he wanted to be the no.1 forward, but I think he's found that 'wanting' something and the work and attitude actually required to get there are two very different things, and he has rarely displayed that he cares enough to bridge that gap.

No doubt SOME talent is there, you don't get picked at no.5 without it, but if you don't think he has an attitude issue, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

ps. Am I just agreeing with myself in my post about expectations on high picks? Didn't really think it through -- I thought that the way fans see the players I mentioned were pretty self-evident, but perhaps not. Anyone else care to chime in?

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Forward line 2012

I also have serious concerns on Grant and they go back to the 2010 finals. He was just hopeless through that series when we really needed him to step up.

On the evidence from 2011 it also ruined his confidence as he NEVER showed anything in 2011.

He needs to really produce this year or his career, at least as a Bulldog, will be over.

[Cyberdoggie]

Re: Forward line 2012

I also have serious concerns on Grant and they go back to the 2010 finals. He was just hopeless through that series when we really needed him to step up.

On the evidence from 2011 it also ruined his confidence as he NEVER showed anything in 2011.

He needs to really produce this year or his career, at least as a Bulldog, will be over.

Perhaps he needs to get involved more in the game, ie pushing him further up the ground?

Grant is clearly a confidence player and he just needs to get his hands on the ball a bit to boost that up. I remember early in his career he was playing the same way, then all of a sudden in VFL game against collingwood at vic park he started to get involved, get a back of 4 or so goals and took a couple of hangers. From that point on for most of that season he was a different player.

If he's not playing well i'd say drop him down a level until he does.

[Missing-Dog]

Re: Forward line 2012

Hope he can use his speed to his advantage this year as I think that is his only hope. He will not get big enough to out muscle his opponent therefore can only rely on his speed.. He is also very agile for a tall guy and I like seeing him run at defenders (just picturing his run from half way against collingwood in 2010). Hope he can step up this season and even if hes no superstar this year, atleast imrpove on last year

[Before I Die]

Re: Forward line 2012

As stated earlier, I think Grant has a role to play in our forward structure. However, the promotion of Panos and the speculative selections of Hill and Redpath indicate the club see the need for a Plan B if he doesn't come through. I expect he will be given every opportunity to perform in the first half of the season. But if he hasn't earned his spot by then he may quickly find himself on the outer with regards to the club's future planning.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Forward line 2012

If Grant is ever going to really make it, I don't see it happening in a genuine KP role whether it be near 'FF' or 'CHF'. I see it more coming down to his pace, his lack of intensity really hurts here as he could use his pace to apply pressure without the ball. Offensively he could have a touch of Johnno's too good overhead for some opponents/too mobile for others danger to him but once again his unwillingness to work hurts.

[Sedat]

Re: Forward line 2012

If Grant is ever going to really make it, I don't see it happening in a genuine KP role whether it be near 'FF' or 'CHF'. I see it more coming down to his pace, his lack of intensity really hurts here as he could use his pace to apply pressure without the ball. Offensively he could have a touch of Johnno's too good overhead for some opponents/too mobile for others danger to him but once again his unwillingness to work hurts.

Pretty well surmised. Hard work offensively and defensively will see him improve and become a valuable player. Failure to work hard will see him have a short career under McCartney.

[Mofra]

Re: Forward line 2012

Pretty well surmised. Hard work offensively and defensively will see him improve and become a valuable player. Failure to work hard will see him have a short career under McCartney.

He did have a very good passage of defensive play during the intra-club - I know the club has said their major work with Jones was keeping him in the game, ie defensive efforts. I assume Grant has been working on the same thing so will be intersting to watch in coming weeks - possibly the most interesting player on our list in development terms.

[stefoid]

Re: Forward line 2012

It would be refreshing if we could be the kind of club that gets the best out of players (sydney, geelong, maybe collingwood) rather than the type of club where you get the sneaking suspicion that some with 'special needs' fall through the cracks.

[Bornadog]

Re: Forward line 2012

It would be refreshing if we could be the kind of club that gets the best out of players (sydney, geelong, maybe collingwood) rather than the type of club where you get the sneaking suspicion that some with 'special needs' fall through the cracks.

Maybe the new coaching team will do that.

[Mantis]

Re: Forward line 2012

It would be refreshing if we could be the kind of club that gets the best out of players (sydney, geelong, maybe collingwood) rather than the type of club where you get the sneaking suspicion that some with 'special needs' fall through the cracks.

Can you remind me how Sydney are getting on with Everitt?

Pretty sure it's up to the individual.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Forward line 2012

Can you remind me how Sydney are getting on with Everitt?

Pretty sure it's up to the individual.

REminds me
Josh Hill Kicked a goal last weekend .....groan... hopefully one of few in 2012

[LostDoggy]

Re: Forward line 2012

It would be refreshing if we could be the kind of club that gets the best out of players (sydney, geelong, maybe collingwood) rather than the type of club where you get the sneaking suspicion that some with 'special needs' fall through the cracks.

Hi stefoid -- I posted a reply yesterday but seems to have not gotten through.

Anyway, what I said was that perhaps this was linked to how well-resourced a club is. On the one hand you have a Collingwood with 1,684 assistant coaches (only a slight exaggeration) with each devoted to every minutiae of a players' needs (they probably have a coach just to braid Daisy's hair).

On the other hand, you have some clubs where every employee is expected to multi-task. I'm sure I saw Rocket cleaning the toilets once a few years ago, and Smorgon was manning the cafe money-till the other day (again, only a slight exaggeration).

Of course you will always have your outlying pieces of datum that will succeed or fail regardless of their environment, but you have to say that the massive gap between the relative haves and have-nots of the league will have an overall effect on 'getting the best out of players'.