Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

[GVGjr]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Agree with some of that, but which youngsters were/ have been alienated?

And even if we were to tip out some or all of the players mentioned I can't see how you could have any faith that we would have recruited the type of players to improve our list going on our recent drafting efforts.

So the former coach should be held accountable for this? I thought drafting is the responsibilty of our recruiting staff?

Everitt, Hill and Ward (and from the older group Lake) all had issues with a coach that didn't really modify his approach to the person. At the same time, he ignored the negative influence of Sam Reid and talked up the erratic Schofield.


The former coach isn't being held to account not in the slightest but now it's open season on the current. I don't get why Eade isn't receiving at least a mention because it's essentially his list.

So the former coach should be held accountable for this? I thought drafting is the responsibilty of our recruiting staff?

Does the former coach have no involvement for the Mulligan and Hooper promotions, playing Hahn one season to many on the senior list and then another season as a senior rookie? Do we just ignore the ongoing selection and retention of Eagleton?

I'm sure all of these decisions were seen as the right thing at the time but it's largely the reason why we are where we are. We can keep putting the blame on McCartney and highlight some of the errors he has made but we ignored all the warning signs over the last three seasons.

[GVGjr]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

The fact is we got rid of a good coach for a crap one.

And there it is. Vintage Chops.

[KT31]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Very good post. We can't judge Macca in his first year as coach as he has to get used to the new role as he hasn't coached an AFL side before and the fact he doesn't have that much to work with right now.

Did he or did he not do an apprenticeship at Geelong ?
He was getting more out of the players in the first half of the season, this would suggest something is a-rye.
Agree it is only his first year as coach, but if a trademan on his first job after his apprenticeship burnt a house down he is still accountable.

[KT31]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

I wasn't saying this in the first half, but during the second half with the lack of coaching tactics and moves I fail to see any other reason to explain the lost tonight.

Could be our coaching staff just had nothing in the bag.
This may be our game plan.

If we don't know our tactics then then opposition could never know.

[Hotdog60]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Maybe to problem lies in telling the fans we needed a refresh and not a rebuild. It has given a false impression that the list is in good shape and fresh ideas at the top will propel us forward.

If the club had called it as it was (rebuild) and then our expectations would have move to a later time frame.

It's crap at the moment and it maybe a slow process going forward but as supporters we have to hang in there just like most of us have for the last 50 - 40 years.

I was very disappointed with last night but I've been through this so many times before. I'll just hang in there and get ready for the next window to come along and hope I don't die before I can see the cup raised above the captains head in September.

If Macca has a 3 year deal we have to give him a chance to apply his ideas, but at the end of year 2 we should be seeing some good signs or his head may not be so secure.

P.S. I wanted to see Rocket rebuild not refresh, but we have what we have and I'm willing to give the man a chance.

[Mantis]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Everitt, Hill and Ward (and from the older group Lake) all had issues with a coach that didn't really modify his approach to the person. At the same time, he ignored the negative influence of Sam Reid and talked up the erratic Schofield.

Ward? I don't get this one.

Everitt and Hill were given ample opportunities to play the type of footy we wanted, but didn't or couldn't... Both now have the opportunity to play bit part roles in very good teams which suit them down to the ground.

How was Sam Reid a negative influence?

When was Schofield talked up publically?

And I know that the bolded point is crap... you should know better than to make assumptions like this.

The former coach isn't being held to account not in the slightest but now it's open season on the current. I don't get why Eade isn't receiving at least a mention because it's essentially his list.

You're mentioning him so it's a moot point.

Does the former coach have no involvement for the Mulligan and Hooper promotions, playing Hahn one season to many on the senior list and then another season as a senior rookie? Do we just ignore the ongoing selection and retention of Eagleton?

My understanding is that the Mulligan & Hooper promotions had little do with the former coach.... Should he have been.. yes, but perhaps it wasn't his call.

My feelings on Eagleton are well known.

Hahn... yeah whatever.... but the point is that our drafting has been crap so who is to say that our list would be in any better shape if we had cut the fat when we should have.

I'm sure all of these decisions were seen as the right thing at the time but it's largely the reason why we are where we are. We can keep putting the blame on McCartney and highlight some of the errors he has made but we ignored all the warning signs over the last three seasons.

My problem with McCartney has nothing to do with how our list has been built... my problem is with the complete lack of development we have shown this year... I still have no idea what sort of game style we are looking to implement which is disappointing considering we are almost 3/4 of the way through the season.. I hope there is a grand plan, but at present I have no idea what it is... the only thing I know is that we are going to 'crack in'... Awesome.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

And there it is. Vintage Chops.

Thanks so you agree?

[GVGjr]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Ward? I don't get this one.

Eade approach to Ward wasn't always accepted as a positive.

Everitt and Hill were given ample opportunities to play the type of footy we wanted, but didn't or couldn't... Both now have the opportunity to play bit part roles in very good teams which suit them down to the ground.

They were given a lot of opportunities but they needed a different approach from the coach and didn't initially respond well to some sarcasm. That might have worked well on some of the senior guys but not everyone on the list handles it as well.

How was Sam Reid a negative influence?

He led the younger group into some issues but it wasn't identified by the coaches that there was one common link.

And I know that the bolded point is crap... you should know better than to make assumptions like this.[/B]

It's actually you that is assuming that my comments are an assumption.

My understanding is that the Mulligan & Hooper promotions had little do with the former coach.... Should he have been.. yes, but perhaps it wasn't his call.

My feelings on Eagleton are well known.

Hahn... yeah whatever.... but the point is that our drafting has been crap so who is to say that our list would be in any better shape if we had cut the fat when we should have.

Most good coaches don't tow the line of just letting the recruiters do their part and I think it's a failure of both our longer term recent coaches in Eade and Wallace that seem to distance themselves from it.
Sheedy for example was front and centre of all list management and recruiting decisions.

[GVGjr]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Thanks so you agree?

Of course not. Eade was a good coach and was great for the club and I don't question that in any way. It's your comment of McCartney that is at least consistent with your tendency to ignore the reasons why we are playing so poorly.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Most good coaches don't tow the line of just letting the recruiters do their part and I think it's a failure of both our longer term recent coaches in Eade and Wallace that seem to distance themselves from it.
Sheedy for example was front and centre of all list management and recruiting decisions.

I thought after the 2007? coaching review Eade lost a lot of these powers?

[GVGjr]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Maybe to problem lies in telling the fans we needed a refresh and not a rebuild. It has given a false impression that the list is in good shape and fresh ideas at the top will propel us forward.

If the club had called it as it was (rebuild) and then our expectations would have move to a later time frame.

It was a play on words to try and keep the membership numbers. I wish there was a way of telling people exactly how it is and for them not to drop off but a lot of people shut down with the truth especially when it's not what they want to hear.

Rebuild or Refresh doesn't matter in the slightest at the moment.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Of course not. Eade was a good coach and was great for the club and I don't question that in any way. It's your comment of McCartney that is at least consistent with your tendency to ignore the reasons why we are playing so poorly.

Why we are playing poorly?
There are a number of reasons.
Things like a lack of a viable game plan, inability to counter opposition moves/players and little to no development in our players this year.
Who is at fault here for those?

[chef]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Still gutted we lost, we should have won that game and team selection cost us.

With Port winning and still having games against GC and GWS to come, it looks like picks 5 and 6 coming our way.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

It was a play on words to try and keep the membership numbers. I wish there was a way of telling people exactly how it is and for them not to drop off but a lot of people shut down with the truth especially when it's not what they want to hear.
Rebuild or Refresh doesn't matter in the slightest at the moment.

Yes that really worked well. If that's the case its straight out BS to your members and treating them with contempt.
Do you think they bought it?

It was more about justification for getting a new coach and shifting the blame off themselves.

[GVGjr]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

I thought after the 2007? coaching review Eade lost a lot of these powers?

Are you saying that he lost the power to impose his thoughts and put the recruiting team under the microscope for every decision to make?
Would a newly appointed recruiting manager really ignore the vision and input of a respected senior coach?
Rightly or wrongly I'm led to believe that McCartney imposed his will with the recruiting and drafting late last year.
I might be missing something here but are you saying that the same recruiting team would listen to a new coach more than a senior one?