Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

I've gotta say, I'm not as devastated as many others (and perhaps as I should be). I picked a 2 goal loss, and wasn't far off the mark unfortunately. I am disappointed we let another game slip, but I'm strangely resigned to this happening. We're almost completely devoid of A-graders, and players who will/can stand up and deliver when we most need it. Coaching moves/selections are continually baffling, but hey, they're cracking in and getting an education, and they're good people, right?

On the game: Really disappointed for Higgins, thought he's shown a bit at times this year and was doing well tonight. Tom W. looks good in the F50, and Lakey continues his good form. Despite the Gilbee critics, I reckon he's done some good things since coming back in, and the kids do need a few experienced heads around.

You've made a lot of comments like this and I find its wearing a little thin. Yes it hurts at
the moment but do you honestly believe this is all McCartney has to offer? It's his first year
no Morris Addison or Wood who may have freed Murphy up last night, no Cooney no Williams for long periods this year, lost Higgins during the game, Ward gone Harbrow gone and a bunch of kids he didn't draft to work with. Essendon seem to be tiring and their kids have had more years in the system than ours. From what I remember most people were happy with
the way we started the season .

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

We have a coaching panel that is totally inexperienced and needs an injection of a mentor to Macca or some experienced assistants as this can't go on.

Yep, would have thought this would have been part and parcel of hiring Macca I just assumed we couldn't afford it.

[Sedat]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

But we were sliding back at an alarming rate and basically held up by the likes of Barry Hall. We are paying for the short term decisions over the last 3 years. Keeping Eagleton and Hahn on well part their use-by dates. Keeping Akermanis on one season too many. Trading for Sherman wasn't a good decision then and certainly isn't now. Promoting Mulligan and Hooper who weren't ready and alienating some youngsters and not tying up some other talented youngsters with contracts at the appropriate time are all contributing to where we are now.

We can continue to point the finger at McCartney and Fantasia but I reckon Eade is being made up to be more of a messiah than he really was. He isn't being blamed even in part for leaving us with a flat footed playing list and some significant gaps in recent draft crops.

I think it is rash in the extreme to be questioning BMac's bonafides as a senior coach, but the way we have dropped off sine Round 9 has been alarming. Rocket was far from perfect in his last couple of years but he didn't resort to massive numbers behind the ball or a risk-averse short chipping game plan. There was a system in place to try and score - he was rightly criticised for not adapting to the forward press, and had started to counter this last year (2 years too late in hindsight). Rocket was never the messiah but he did have us very competitive, even last year with no Lake marshalling our backline.

This discussion shouldn't be a referendum on Rocket v BMac, but I thinkit is healthy to ask questions about every aspect of our on-field operations to ascertain why we are the worst team in the competition save for GWS in the last 6 weeks. I have no problem with our results in that time but I am highly concerned with the manner of our performances. I have no doubt that BMac and the coaching group share these concerns.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Doesn't necessarily mean he is drinking.

No, but I think an injured player being out past 2am would be frowned upon. And FWIW, I reckon he might've been drinking.

[Sedat]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

I didn't see them raise the white flag last night I saw a bunch of kids who were stuffed
and a few older players like Griff who had busted their gut all night out on his feet also.
If we hadn't slowed the game down a little when we did they were just about to run all over us. Slowing it down kept it closer and at least gave us some sort of chance to pinch it. Was ugly though.

Hey Frank, I think you are being a little generous of your assessment of last night. Carlton kicked 12 of the last 16 goals, which has unfortunately been a consistent pattern from us since Round 10. And it was against a half-strength opposition in terrible form themselves for the last 2 months

[Missing Dog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

I agree with GVGjr on most points.

The list we have is awful. Eade and the club at the time got it wrong and now we are paying for it. McCartney deserves some criticism given what the team has produced so far, but this year was always a year we were going to struggle no matter who coached us. Barry Hall held our forward line together and Ward was nearing the top 5 players at the club. We also have a pretty big bunch of ageing stars, of course we were always going backwards this year.

McCartney still needs time to show us what he can do. So far he's been disappointing I know, but at the moment it's quite clear to me that McCartney is not worried about the result. It's more about experiment and development.

The capitulations are concerning, but didn't the same thing happen at Geelong? He's been there and he's trying to build a team that will stand up in these situations. It takes a while to build up this kind of mentality and he needs the right players to do it. It didn't happen overnight at Geelong, I think we just need more patience.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Everitt, Hill and Ward (and from the older group Lake) all had issues with a coach that didn't really modify his approach to the person. At the same time, he ignored the negative influence of Sam Reid and talked up the erratic Schofield.

Ward had issues? What was Reid's negative influence? In fairness to Rocket, Schofield had many excited.

The former coach isn't being held to account not in the slightest but now it's open season on the current. I don't get why Eade isn't receiving at least a mention because it's essentially his list.

IMO we didn't look non-competitive with essentially the same list last year. I go to games now expecting a loss.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Hey Frank, I think you are being a little generous of your assessment of last night. Carlton kicked 12 of the last 16 goals, which has unfortunately been a consistent pattern from us since Round 10. And it was against a half-strength opposition in terrible form themselves for the last 2 months

Probably a little. We played ok early on though and finally are some hints that a forward line
of Williams , Higgins, Grant and throw Jones/Dahl in there could look ok. It's been trial and error. We had to give Cordy an extended run down there this year, we paid for it but BMac had to try that. Cordy will still could develop anyhow it will just take time. Remember we lost Higgins during the match too. Carlton were supposed to be playing in the GF this year and we are about where we should be unfortunately. To me it just seems players like Dahl are visibly tiring both during games, and as the weeks go by.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

You've made a lot of comments like this and I find its wearing a little thin. Yes it hurts at
the moment but do you honestly believe this is all McCartney has to offer?

I've not seen or heard much to give me a different impression. Ridiculous selection decisions, leaving players in positions where they are struggling /failing, not making changes in response to match circumstances.

[Maddog37]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

No, but I think an injured player being out past 2am would be frowned upon. And FWIW, I reckon he might've been drinking.

I guess the other question is whether he is actually injured or being rested.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

I guess the other question is whether he is actually injured or being rested.

Yep, fair point.

[Sedat]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

I agree with GVGjr on most points.

The list we have is awful. Eade and the club at the time got it wrong and now we are paying for it. McCartney deserves some criticism given what the team has produced so far, but this year was always a year we were going to struggle no matter who coached us. Barry Hall held our forward line together and Ward was nearing the top 5 players at the club. We also have a pretty big bunch of ageing stars, of course we were always going backwards this year.

McCartney still needs time to show us what he can do. So far he's been disappointing I know, but at the moment it's quite clear to me that McCartney is not worried about the result. It's more about experiment and development.

The capitulations are concerning, but didn't the same thing happen at Geelong? He's been there and he's trying to build a team that will stand up in these situations. It takes a while to build up this kind of mentality and he needs the right players to do it. It didn't happen overnight at Geelong, I think we just need more patience.

Rocket is no longer at the club so he has paid the ultimate price for these decisions, even though his ultimate measurement is the W column. So what price has head of football paid for his consistently abject failures in list management and player contract negotiations?

[azabob]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Rocket is no longer at the club so he has paid the ultimate price for these decisions, even though his ultimate measurement is the W column. So what price has head of football paid for his consistently abject failures in list management and player contract negotiations?

Hi Sedat, you are very passionate (not sure of the correct word) about this issue and rightly so. Can I ask have you written a formal letter of complaint as a member to the appropriate person?

[Missing Dog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

Rocket is no longer at the club so he has paid the ultimate price for these decisions, even though his ultimate measurement is the W column. So what price has head of football paid for his consistently abject failures in list management and player contract negotiations?

I'm with you, he should be given the axe.
Surely we can do better.

[Mantis]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R17 Western Bulldogs vs Carlton

It comes across to me as Eade's mates have been salivating for failure and are taking glee in our demise.

Am I included in this grouping?

If I have been I am embarrassed for you to believe something so childish.

Like it or not boys we'd be in the same position we would be now if we had kept Eade on. Eade was let go, put the knives back in their sheaves.

How do you know that to be the case?

I would think that every other coach in the game would have us playing their way... the result of this is unknown. What is known is that the tactics and methods that the current coach is employing aren't work at present which has all supporters (including Eade's mates) disappointed.