Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

[The Doctor]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

So what's you solution?

I've given you mine. What's your solution? Don't worry about it?

[Remi Moses]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

I'd appoint a senior assistant coach to help McCartney tactically.
Should have been done to begin with IMO.
I'd recruit a more balanced list ( agree there)
I just take exception to the term " Driving us"to the bottom.
It was inevitable and it's well documented why.
If we show no improvement in 12 months I'd expect McCartney to fall on his sword.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Agreed, we can't fix in 2 years the list management issues that started 6 years back.

The biggest failures have been certain things out of our control. Who would have guessed we would get so little out of the early 2005-2008 drafts.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

The biggest failures have been certain things out of our control. Who would have guessed we would get so little out of the early 2005-2008 drafts.

That's why a lot of us can't give a definitive opinion of McCartney.
He inherited a train wreck .
You just cannot make that many mistakes over a period of time and not pay a penalty
( look at Stkilda)

[Bornadog]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

The biggest failures have been certain things out of our control. Who would have guessed we would get so little out of the early 2005-2008 drafts.

Yet if Harbrow, Ward, maybe even Ray were in this team, how do you think we may go?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Yet if Harbrow, Ward, maybe even Ray were in this team, how do you think we may go?

I think we'd have a lot of structual problems addressed BAD when you think about it. Using The 'Agar Rule':

Harbrow - Full Forward
Ward - CHB
Ray - Second Ruck

Finals bound we were...

[Bornadog]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

I think we'd have a lot of structual problems addressed BAD when you think about it. Using The 'Agar Rule':

Harbrow - Full Forward
Ward - CHB
Ray - Second Ruck

Finals bound we were...

haha.

[azabob]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

I think we'd have a lot of structual problems addressed BAD when you think about it. Using The 'Agar Rule':

Harbrow - Full Forward
Ward - CHB
Ray - Second Ruck

Finals bound we were...

In all seriousiness though if those players had of stayed we could have looked to draft other players rather than Howard, Smith etc.

[Sedat]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Cooney looks like he doesn't want to play a backman's role, which is pretty pathetic given his lack of output over recent seasons. Playing off a half back flank is virtually no different from playing in the midfield, to suggest he isn't playing well because of his position is pretty far fetched. Half the midfielders in the AFL rotate off half back, and Mitchell, Gibbs, Hodge, and Bartel have played extended stints there this season. The difference is their attitude.

I reckon Coons is a 'see ball get ball' type and is not capable of actually putting defensive work into a direct opponent. That's why occasionally he would get torched in the midfield even in his prime (Jarrad McVeigh kicked 6 goals on him one game in his Brownlow year). For that reason I don't think he is a good fit as an attacking rebounder from defensive 50. The idea is sound on paper (as it was with Higgins a couple of years ago) but I don't think it works out in practice.

[The Doctor]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

I'd appoint a senior assistant coach to help McCartney tactically.

Agree with this whole heartedly.

Part of my beef with those in charge are the appointments they have made to people in key off field areas. In fact I would argue every appointment off the field is a key appointment nowadays.

Macca does not seem to have much shrewd assistance in the coaches box. If you look at the current group of assistants which one of them could you realistically expect to step up and take over the senior team if anything was to happen to Macca? In fact, which one of them could we confidently feel could even take over the Bulldogs Reserves next year?

I just take exception to the term " Driving us"to the bottom.
It was inevitable and it's well documented why.

I stand by it and will do until I see evidence they are capable of turning the ship around.

I do agree the fault does not lie entirely with the current regime. The previous have a lot to answer for, no question. I just don't like excuses constantly being made for the current lot as if to let them off and free them of any accountability.

If we show no improvement in 12 months I'd expect McCartney to fall on his sword.

I appreciate the stance of patience and giving them a chance. I really do. However, what if we get to 12 months and we are in the same mess, only by then it is likely to be worse. As I stated earlier I just think the club needs to start contingency planning so that if things don't improve we have a solution ready to go rather than wait til all hell breaks loose and we are in a re-active under pressure position.

Anyways, been a lively chat. Have actually enjoyed it!

[Remi Moses]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Poor recruiting and list management has driven us to the bottom.
They could have had Norm Smith Ron Barassi Vince Lombardi or any legendary coaching figure .
It was inevitable

[Remi Moses]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Agree with this whole heartedly.

Part of my beef with those in charge are the appointments they have made to people in key off field areas. In fact I would argue every appointment off the field is a key appointment nowadays.

Macca does not seem to have much shrewd assistance in the coaches box. If you look at the current group of assistants which one of them could you realistically expect to step up and take over the senior team if anything was to happen to Macca? In fact, which one of them could we confidently feel could even take over the Bulldogs Reserves next year?



I stand by it and will do until I see evidence they are capable of turning the ship around.

I do agree the fault does not lie entirely with the current regime. The previous have a lot to answer for, no question. I just don't like excuses constantly being made for the current lot as if to let them off and free them of any accountability.



I appreciate the stance of patience and giving them a chance. I really do. However, what if we get to 12 months and we are in the same mess, only by then it is likely to be worse. As I stated earlier I just think the club needs to start contingency planning so that if things don't improve we have a solution ready to go rather than wait til all hell breaks loose and we are in a re-active under pressure position.

Anyways, been a lively chat. Have actually enjoyed it!

So what does that say to the coach any future aspirant.
" Look we're not sure, but we've got a contingency plan in case you fail'
Reeks of Richmond in the 80's. complete instability
Robust discussion Doc, anyway.

[jeemak]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Good reading guys.

The leap of faith required currently, is making me uneasy. Without being close to the club, I can't be sure of the tactical nous of the coaching panel, though what I will say is if having somebody of the caliber or Rodney Eade overseeing a large amount of Collingwood's football operations is good enough for their club - considering they can afford to bring in the best assistants money can buy - then it should be good enough for us with our no-name team of assistant coaches.

Having us show minimal, if any improvement to how the team moves the ball (I acknowledge individual players have improved their own games over the last two years), positions itself around contests and structures to score makes it very easy to make negative assumptions about the coaching team we have in place.

I do think they have identified the weaknesses we all see. They know better than anybody else the diabolical mess they were left with from a list perspective, and have done a very good job in recruiting over the last two drafts and trading periods to address that mess. They need to nail the next draft, and the one after that.

Whether they're the team to develop the list and give them the instruction to perform on game day is a massive unknown for me. I'll likely remain concerned for the remainder of the year, and will be watching extremely closely for improvement in the first two months of next year, that's for sure.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Agree Jeemak. Good read