Recruiting Rumour File 2013

[G-Mo77]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

Crameri has stated he wants to leave.
Grant has not.

HUGE difference.

In the end they're both out of contract. From the sounds of it Grant is holding out for another year, we're not coming to the table. Grant could come out tomorrow or the last day of the trade period and say he wants to go elsewhere. It's really not that big of a difference.

If Grant does want to go pick #28 is a good return.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

There's a bit of a difference between a guy who's won the club's goal kicking 3 consecutive years and a guy who's managed 58 games in 6 years and was only a late season form reversal away from being delisted.

I think it's pretty clear the club thinks Grant is a coaster, and that if they offer him a straight 2 years, next year is likely to be a write off before he again pulls his finger out in the final year of his contract. For me he's in no position to be demanding anything more, he's never shown any consistent output and is still trading on the potential tag. If another club wants to take the chance he'll one day come good, and we can get adequate compensation, I'm happy enough to lose him. I suspect if he gets a 3 year deal at another club you will see him play a lot of lower league footy in the next 24 months.

Eight games in my opinion is a substantial enough stretch to tell a lot about a player and in that time he was our best forward. You've already agreed with this sentiment in other threads so I'm not sure why the damning "58 games in 6 years" stuff keeps on coming forth (it's more like 58 games in 4 years given the circumstances of his first two years).

No, just long term players with no consistent form to justify anything more.

Club's aren't charities, if you don't deliver on game then you have no right to expect long term security. I'm alarmed at how much stock people are taking out of a few good games late in a season.

Eight =/= a few.

My contention isn't with the contract offer, which I think is roughly reasonable, it's with the strain of logic some are coming out with which goes something like,

"why would he want 2 years? If he thinks he's so good he should just perform next year and he'll get an extension"

...and,

"give him 2 years and he'll just get complacent again!"

Obviously he's going to want to secure his future, as with any player, and that he wants two years says precisely nothing about a desire to sit back and become complacent.

Like I've said before, I think the current contract on offer is fair given his output to date BUT in light of other clubs seeking him out, I would prefer we give him 2 years than lose him.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

I think if they trade him for pick 30 rather than give him a guaranteed 2 years they are announcing they have no faith he's ever going to consistently apply himself. If they feel that way then best trade him now while his value is reasonable.

Sure, but there's no way on earth Brendan McCartney would be showing 'no faith', it's not how he rolls. If they're considering trading him it'll be as a result of getting Crameri and feeling like the forward line could be crowded rather than doubts over Grant's headspace having completed the best run of form we've seen from a forward in recent memory.

[Greystache]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

Eight games in my opinion is a substantial enough stretch to tell a lot about a player and in that time he was our best forward. You've already agreed with this sentiment in other threads so I'm not sure why the damning "58 games in 6 years" stuff keeps on coming forth (it's more like 58 games in 4 years given the circumstances of his first two years).

8 games is an extremely small sample, especially when the player is playing for his career. He has played probably 10 good games in 3 years which is damning. His last 3 games of 2013 were actually pretty average too. I don't recall ever agreeing his was our best forward in the latter half of the season BTW.

Eight =/= a few.

My contention isn't with the contract offer, which I think is roughly reasonable, it's with the strain of logic some are coming out with which goes something like,

"why would he want 2 years? If he thinks he's so good he should just perform next year and he'll get an extension"

...and,

"give him 2 years and he'll just get complacent again!"

Obviously he's going to want to secure his future, as with any player, and that he wants two years says precisely nothing about a desire to sit back and become complacent.

Like I've said before, I think the current contract on offer is fair given his output to date BUT in light of other clubs seeking him out, I would prefer we give him 2 years than lose him.

The club obviously has concerns about investing in him, the contract offer suggests they think complacency is a real concern. Perhaps the club are happy to offer him a contract he can easily refuse hoping that it will generate some interest elsewhere as his market value may never be as high again. If that's the strategy I think it's a good one.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

There's a bit of a difference between a guy who's won the club's goal kicking 3 consecutive years and a guy who's managed 58 games in 6 years and was only a late season form reversal away from being delisted.

I think it's pretty clear the club thinks Grant is a coaster, and that if they offer him a straight 2 years, next year is likely to be a write off before he again pulls his finger out in the final year of his contract. For me he's in no position to be demanding anything more, he's never shown any consistent output and is still trading on the potential tag. If another club wants to take the chance he'll one day come good, and we can get adequate compensation, I'm happy enough to lose him. I suspect if he gets a 3 year deal at another club you will see him play a lot of lower league footy in the next 24 months.

I wholeheartedly agree .
Responsible list management decision

[Greystache]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

Sure, but there's no way on earth Brendan McCartney would be showing 'no faith', it's not how he rolls. If they're considering trading him it'll be as a result of getting Crameri and feeling like the forward line could be crowded rather than doubts over Grant's headspace having completed the best run of form we've seen from a forward in recent memory.

That's possibly the biggest exaggeration I've read on this forum. Again I cannot get over how big Grant's last 8 games have been built up to.

Just as a comparison in the last 8 games.

Grant (Average)

16.6 disposals
4.8 marks
1.2 goals

Tory Dickson (Average)

15.2 disposal
3.87 marks
2.21 goals

And that's in comparison to a player with 30 games to his name coming of a severe ankle injury. Let's try to get some perspective here.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

That's possibly the biggest exaggeration I've read on this forum. Again I cannot get over how big Grant's last 8 games have been built up to.

Just as a comparison in the last 8 games.

Grant (Average)

16.6 disposals
5.8 marks
1.2 goals

Tory Dickson (Average)

15.2 disposal
3.87 marks
2.21 goals

And that's in comparison to a player with 30 games to his name coming of a severe ankle injury. Let's try to get some perspective here.

Grant (Average) - Dream Team 78.5

16.6 disposals
5.8 marks
1.2 goals
* 3rd in AFL for average goal assists
* 2 Brownlow votes


Tory Dickson (Average) Dream Team 71

15.2 disposal
3.87 marks
2.21 goals


Grant double Dickson for inside 50's, double for marks inside 50 and heaps better for goal assists.

For perspective

[LostDoggy]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

I love Grants best, but unsure if he will be best 22 next year, I think Stringer and Crameri kill off Grant in the starting 22.

Key Forwards: Jones / Williams / Campbell / Cordy
Mid Forwards (leading): Crameri / Stringer / Dickson / Grant
Small Forwards: Dalhaus / Hunter / Higgins / Smith / Hrovat / Gia

[Greystache]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

For perspective

Personally I'd take 22 goals kicked and 4 assists over 13 goals and 10 assists, but maybe that's just me.

That's fact you could make a case for either player makes the "having completed the best run of form we've seen from a forward in recent memory." comment seem extreme.

That's of course without mentioning that Barry chap who kicked 40 goals in the last 8 games 2 years earlier

Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about trading.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

Personally I'd take 22 goals kicked and 4 assists over 13 goals and 10 assists, but maybe that's just me.

Maybe, but Dicksons 26 goals (direct and assists) were over 13 games.
Grants 23 goals (direct and assists) were over 8 games.

So Dickson averages 2 goals a game. Grant 3 goals a game, bringing in his team mates much, much more. Over the course of a season, that's a massive differential.

I agree let's not make grand stand statements, but if there was one spot left in the forward line and you had to use these stats to work out who to choose between them, Grant wins easily.

And, I agree it's about trading this thread, but when the bloody AFL give us 3 weeks of nothing, we've gig to fill in the silence somehow!

[Scorlibo]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

8 games is an extremely small sample, especially when the player is playing for his career. He has played probably 10 good games in 3 years which is damning. His last 3 games of 2013 were actually pretty average too. I don't recall ever agreeing his was our best forward in the latter half of the season BTW.

The club obviously has concerns about investing in him, the contract offer suggests they think complacency is a real concern. Perhaps the club are happy to offer him a contract he can easily refuse hoping that it will generate some interest elsewhere as his market value may never be as high again. If that's the strategy I think it's a good one.

It doesn't suggest anything of the sort! It is an offer suggestive of his form line and nothing more. GS, YOU think that complacency is a concern - don't project your feelings towards Grant onto the coaching staff because you're clearly not even close to being on the same wavelength (especially not with your aforementioned 'strategy').

I think it's really silly when supporters try to fill in the gaps to a player's persona. Jarrad Grant is easy to pigeonhole as a player who doesn't work hard enough because he was a high draft pick and hasn't produced in accordance with his draft standing. Yet that says nothing of his attitude towards putting in the hard yards. There was a good article earlier in the year identifying Grant as a character who is misunderstood and who actually is diligent in his response to the coaches' demands.

Personally I'd take 22 goals kicked and 4 assists over 13 goals and 10 assists, but maybe that's just me.

That's fact you could make a case for either player makes the "having completed the best run of form we've seen from a forward in recent memory." comment seem extreme.

That's of course without mentioning that Barry chap who kicked 40 goals in the last 8 games 2 years earlier

Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about trading.

I'm not talking Barry Hall years, I'm talking the last two years. Our forward line for most of the year had been crazy bad. For mine, Jarrad's form directly coincided with a way more cohesive forward line and eclipsed Dicko's work over the same time period. As you've stated above, 'personally' you preferred Dickson's output. Well, personally I much preferred Grant's, and preferred it to any other forward's output in the last 2 years.

I'm going to put your brash response down to a different qualification of 'recent memory', because I think even you'd acknowledge that Grant's inclusion into the senior side marked a significant turning point in team performance - the most pronounced turnaroud I've seen since 2005.

[Greystache]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

It doesn't suggest anything of the sort! It is an offer suggestive of his form line and nothing more. GS, YOU think that complacency is a concern - don't project your feelings towards Grant onto the coaching staff because you're clearly not even close to being on the same wavelength (especially not with your aforementioned 'strategy').

I does suggest that! You Scorlibo, think complacency is NOT a concern, YOU think that- don't project your feelings towards Grant onto the coaching staff because you're clearly not even close to being on the same wavelength.

See how tiresome that type of post is to read? I get it your opinion is fact, other people's opinion is pure speculation (unless of course they agree with you).

I'm not talking Barry Hall years, I'm talking the last two years. Our forward line for most of the year had been crazy bad. For mine, Jarrad's form directly coincided with a way more cohesive forward line and eclipsed Dicko's work over the same time period. As you've stated above, 'personally' you preferred Dickson's output. Well, personally I much preferred Grant's, and preferred it to any other forward's output in the last 2 years.

I'm going to put your brash response down to a different qualification of 'recent memory', because I think even you'd acknowledge that Grant's inclusion into the senior side marked a significant turning point in team performance - the most pronounced turnaroud I've seen since 2005.

So recent memory is restricted to the past 2 years from a team that finished 15th both years. What a pointless window to choose.

Now go on and have the last word and move on because I doubt anyone wants to read any more of this.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

That's possibly the biggest exaggeration I've read on this forum. Again I cannot get over how big Grant's last 8 games have been built up to.

Just as a comparison in the last 8 games.

Grant (Average)

16.6 disposals
4.8 marks
1.2 goals

Tory Dickson (Average)

15.2 disposal
3.87 marks
2.21 goals

And that's in comparison to a player with 30 games to his name coming of a severe ankle injury. Let's try to get some perspective here.

Apart from Dickson's day out in kicking 6 goals, Grant was definitely the superior forward.
I hadn't been a great fan of Grant's previously, until last year and felt that he was lucky to survive being cut from the list at the end of 2012. For whatever reason he was probably our best forward by last season's end, in a forward line that lacked class. You can quite understand the reluctance of the MC to give him a two year extension, but given the alternatives we might need to consider it seriously. Crameri and Stringer both had interrupted seasons through injury and with Jones's inconsistency there is still a lot of concerns about our attack.

[Ozza]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

I'm not going to get drawn into the fray about Grant's last 8 games maybe or maybe not being the best 8 games from a Bulldogs forward since Kelvin Templeton (just kidding guys!) - but what we can say is definitely a positive is that Grant is actually worth something now, in order to be spoken about in potential trades. Prior to him coming back into the team - lets face it - was 5 and a half years of a lump of coal for Dogs supporters!

Now that Docherty appears to be off the table - I very much hope we keep him at the club on the one (+1) year deal. And if he plays enough games to trigger the second year - then thats a huge positive too, as it will mean he has followed through on some promise shown this year. And lets not kid ourselves - it was some very promising signs, from a player who hasn't earnt our complete trust as a long term prospect.

If we get Crameri, and maybe Darley from GWS to be a potential nice kicking defender, in the future - and hold on to the first and third round picks - then I'm happy with where the list is at.

[Twodogs]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

The thread that's dedicated to Jarryd Grant would be the obvious place to talk about Jarryd Grant.