2018 Tour of South Africa

[jeemak]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

It depends on what your benchmark is. South Africa's standard approach to dealing with ball tampering charges against their players (yes, it happens that often they have a standard approach), is to deny guilt, challenge any guilty verdict, then refuse to discuss the specifics other than to say they are outraged they've been charged (when they really mean caught). After a week it goes away until they're caught again. Their press also lines up behind them and starts attacking the team they're playing as a diversion. They even had the national broadcaster threaten to refuse to allow an international broadcaster into the country again if they showed footage of the SA ball tampering.

Contrast this with the Australian approach of admitting guilt, naming players, threatening stiff penalties, and openly embracing the press condemnation. I would say CA's been far more open and honest than any of the like of South Africa, England, Pakistan, or India who get caught regularly. The only difference in the situations is those countries don't have a press that lives to pour scorn on their team, and a big national population that sees their own self-loathing manifest in the national cricket team.

You make reasonable points, though I do think the population - for good reason - wants members of the Australian team to behave to a higher standard than they do.

We're sick of their arrogance, sense of entitlement and general demeanour from the top down and we have been for a long time. I don't think we care how other nation's players behave, we actually just want our guys to stop carrying on like wankers.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Is what they did really that bad? Did they get drunk punch some random guy? Did they nick a ball and not walk? Did they sell game information to Indian gambling companies? Have they been bowling with a bent arm? did they smear mints on a ball?

In the scheme of things from a cricket perspective yes ball tampering is wrong. Planning to ball tamper is at the upper end of the scale of wrongness and covering up with lies is also wrong. To go on and say its un=-Australian and to completely hang these guys out to dry is a witch hunt of the highest proportions.

1) being sent home from the tour is the right thing to do;
2) relieving Smith of the the captaincy is the right thing to do;
3) giving them some ban is also the righ thing to do.

Saying that they should never play for Australia again.....come on, that's OTT and farcical. People do the wrong thing, we punish and move on. As I started with in the grand scheme of things this is pretty minor.

Totally agree with you Fredi, the rhetoric here in Australia is actually ridiculous with people calling for a year plus ban etc. Even the ICC only have a one match ban. People getting on their high horses on radio talkback, on social media have totally lost the plot.

[Greystache]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

You make reasonable points, though I do think the population - for good reason - wants members of the Australian team to behave to a higher standard than they do.

We're sick of their arrogance, sense of entitlement and general demeanour from the top down and we have been for a long time. I don't think we care how other nation's players behave, we actually just want our guys to stop carrying on like wankers.

I can understand that, but their behaviour is no worse than the likes of South Africa, and MUCH better than India. You only need to look at the number of times their players are reported for bad behaviour. The difference is the way their behaviour is reported. Rabada for example has been found guilty of poor behaviour 6 times in 2 years, which is more than Warner in his entire career. Yet I hear the media (including our own FFS) describing Rabada as a fierce competitor who's good for the game, while Warner is the sum of all evil who's behaviour is outrageous and unprecedented. Like it or not the media coverage becomes the reality in a sport where people can't watch a substantial portion of matches.

I'm no Warner fan, but if he was English, Indian, or South African his reputation would be far rosier.

[jeemak]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Their biggest crime is they're Australian. Plenty worse has been done with none of the fall out. In fact most people wouldn't even know about previous ball tampering events from other teams, they don't even follow the sport unless there's bad news to celebrate.

The international media don't like them, and their home country doesn't support them. The same people who revel in bagging the Australian cricket team are the same people who love attacking Australia Day. We have a pretty sick national culture currently.

Cricket is sport entertainment. As consumers of the product, and of its sponsors products we have a right to expect that Australian test cricketers behave to a standard we deem acceptable. If they don't, we'll stop consuming and they'll be worse for it. They're currently not, haven't been for a while, and need to adapt.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

I can understand that, but their behaviour is no worse than the likes of South Africa, and MUCH better than India. You only need to look at the number of times their players are reported for bad behaviour. The difference is the way their behaviour is reported. Rabada for example has been found guilty of poor behaviour 6 times in 2 years, which is more than Warner in his entire career. Yet I hear the media (including our own FFS) describing Rabada as a fierce competitor who's good for the game, while Warner is the sum of all evil who's behaviour is outrageous and unprecedented. Like it or not the media coverage becomes the reality in a sport where people can't watch a substantial portion of matches.

I'm no Warner fan, but if he was English, Indian, or South African his reputation would be far rosier.

I agree. I'm actually more ashamed of the crap Australians are saying about the Australian#'s. I don't mind taking the p*ss and admitting we are ashamed, but gee some of the crap said about Warner is just b*llshit. Worse in 12 months when he scores a double hundred those same "Australians" will be feting him as the newest God. Lets get over ourselves - hand out the penalties and move on!

[Sedat]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Their biggest crime is they're Australian.

Their biggest crime is they are hypocrites. When you sit in judgement on everyone else from your ivory tower, you better be 100% squeaky clean.

[Greystache]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Totally agree with you Fredi, the rhetoric here in Australia is actually ridiculous with people calling for a year plus ban etc. Even the ICC only have a one match ban. People getting on their high horses on radio talkback, on social media have totally lost the plot.

If you probe any of the people making those statements you'll find almost none of them have any interest in cricket. We had a group here ranting about how much they hate the Australian team and talking about articles they've read about them. I challenged them to name 5 players who've played recently, between 3 of them they managed 4 players- Smith, Warner, Marsh (didn't know either first names) and Lyon. I didn't accept Gilchrist or Ponting. The only reason they knew Lyon was because "he got suspended last match for cheating on his wife. He's a scumbag".

[FrediKanoute]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Cricket is sport entertainment. As consumers of the product, and of its sponsors products we have a right to expect that Australian test cricketers behave to a standard we deem acceptable. If they don't, we'll stop consuming and they'll be worse for it. They're currently not, haven't been for a while, and need to adapt.

I disagree. Your stabndards of behaviour don't count here. The standard they need/needed to uphold was the laws of cricket and the unwritten spirit of the game. They broke both yes and will be punished for it.

As for sponsors/the public....they are fickle. If Smith is scoring hundreds in 12 months time, you can bet he'll be back on a tin of Milo!

[Greystache]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Their biggest crime is they are hypocrites. When you sit in judgement on everyone else from your ivory tower, you better be 100% squeaky clean.

If you read Crash Craddock they were condemned for even commenting on the fact Du Plesis had been caught again for ball tampering against Australia in Australia last tour. Never mind he did it, and it was against us, apparently we don't even have the right to discuss something "that's not a great look, but all teams in the modern game do it". Such was the insignificance of the event. Apparently Warner was the bad guy out of that event at the time.

Compare that to the tar and feathering he's demanding in the public square before ritual beheading and you'll who the real hypocrites are.

[Twodogs]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

I always pooh-poohed people who said we had a tall poppy syndrome in this country but the last few days of watching people literally line up to take a swing at the Australian cricket team (for a crime they don't really understand the intricacies of) has proved there is a mean and nasty element in Australian society that is full of self loathing and is only too ready to spread that loathing around.

[hujsh]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Personally I don't care if other teams don't admit guilt to cheating. I want our team to be above it. If I condemn other teams for cheating and not the Australians then I'm a hypocrite.

Again I could care less about other teams or how the media reacted to other teams. If the ICC didn't punish them and their nations didn't crack down on it I'm happy to condemn it but it doesn't give the Australian team a free pass at all.

[Greystache]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Personally I don't care if other teams don't admit guilt to cheating. I want our team to be above it. If I condemn other teams for cheating and not the Australians then I'm a hypocrite.

Again I could care less about other teams or how the media reacted to other teams. If the ICC didn't punish them and their nations didn't crack down on it I'm happy to condemn it but it doesn't give the Australian team a free pass at all.

That's your decision. But condemning Australia for cheating but not other teams for doing the same also makes you a hypocrite. The ICC did find them guilty, and they were punished, just as Australia has been. They were just treated totally differently by the media and the public.

[jeemak]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

I disagree. Your stabndards of behaviour don't count here. The standard they need/needed to uphold was the laws of cricket and the unwritten spirit of the game. They broke both yes and will be punished for it.

As for sponsors/the public....they are fickle. If Smith is scoring hundreds in 12 months time, you can bet he'll be back on a tin of Milo!

The game has changed. It's not the spirit of cricket or the laws of the game that line the pockets of the governing body and player, it's the public. Like it or not, their standards matter.

Agree with your second point, though think it will take a bit longer for Smith to recover.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

We need to develop some common sense about this. Cricket Australia seem to think it's a binary matter. Their first reaction was underwhelming but now they think they have to whack heads off and hand out year bans.

I just want some perspective. The rest of the world don't get to drive this and we have to stop reacting to others.

This is too far.

I don't think the rest of the world have had anything to do with the decisions being made. How do you draw that conclusion?

[GVGjr]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

The bans being reported by Lalor and Maxwell seem to me to be on the excessive side. 12 months for Smith and Warner, 9 for Bancroft.

We want strong punishment but I think that is on the high side although I struggle with coming up with the right penalty.