2022 FIFA World Cup

[whythelongface]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Well. Soccer is an Olympic sport - so there is Olympic funding - and government sports fund is essentially participation based.

The fact that junior clubs charge high fees to play soccer has not a lot to do with anything really...it's played outdoors on grass - it can be played essentially anywhere and councils will build facilities if people in their area are playing...there are a couple of pretty nice facilities near me for example.

Cricket is a LOT of money 'cos there is a lot of gear. Football, rugby and soccer are all much the same - boots, mouthguard and private health insurance....

I'm sorry but I'm so sick of the 'You don't understand, it's the world game, it's so hard' commentary that has been the feature of the game for seemingly every year of my life. If the sport is poorly run and promoted in this country - fix it. If the problem is that everyone runs around with a Manchester Mighty Ducks shirt on instead of a Melbourne Victory/United/whatevs shirt - fix it. It just feels like everyone who has a love for the sport points at the same issues over and again but no-one ever DOES anything. DO something.

.

Interesting observations. First of all it is a huge achievement to qualify for the knock out phase of the World Cup. Some may think it is means nothing unless you win the damn thing but when you compete against nations that pretty much live and breath football to achieve what we did should not be underestimated.

Football is expensive. You are right all you need is a ball and field (and some friends) to play football. But if you are a talented junior then you need to join development squads. This is where the expense comes in. These can cost upwards of $1500 per year. In fact the best ones charge well above this. Whom can afford this? Only the elite. What happens to those whom are talented but come from not-so-well-off families. They simply dropout, unless they are some how lucky enough to find a rich corporate sponsor. There is no government support; clubs can’t afford it - there simply is no pathway for some. They just keep playing for their junior club in the hope someone sees them - but that is not how it works. The development squads hold all the aces - they contact scouts if there are talented enough individual/s within the squad.

There is also the tyranny of distance. Some families uproot their whole families to Europe if they feel there is an opportunity for their talented youngster. Again this is few and far between and a very risky investment.

Totally agree that there needs to be an overhaul in our approach but it is difficult when a) football isn’t the number one sport b) the A League is a 3rd rate league (not trying to put it down but that is just the case) - this makes it difficult to have serious levels of investment in the sport. Look at the television rights - you have to watch the A league on Paramount FFS. What free to air channel wants to invest big dollars in the game? It is a vicious cycle that no body, as yet, has been able to solve.

Even places like Morocco have much better pathways for their junior talent and this can be seen by the number of players in their squad that play in the big leagues. They may not play with the best teams but they play against them. Compare this to our squad and we had maybe two or three from the big leagues. A large portion of our squad play in the A-League. Again making the knock out phase was a huge achievement.

[jeemak]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

So so rapt to see Morocco pull through.

But what is with Portugal's no. 7 walking off at the end? Not consoling his team mates and congratulating the opposite team? In another life he would have made a good tennis player..

He's a rotten egg.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Even places like Morocco have much better pathways for their junior talent and this can be seen by the number of players in their squad that play in the big leagues. They may not play with the best teams but they play against them. Compare this to our squad and we had maybe two or three from the big leagues. A large portion of our squad play in the A-League. Again making the knock out phase was a huge achievement.

There are only so many elite sports people in Australia, and some choose to play AFL, or NRL or Cricket or Union or A league. Compare that to many other countries where they only have soccer as the main sport, so elite sports people are not spread thinly across a number of sports like in Australia.

[Sedat]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Even places like Morocco have much better pathways for their junior talent and this can be seen by the number of players in their squad that play in the big leagues. They may not play with the best teams but they play against them. Compare this to our squad and we had maybe two or three from the big leagues. A large portion of our squad play in the A-League. Again making the knock out phase was a huge achievement.

Our best ever team in terms of overall talent by far was 2006 - almost all of that squad were playing significant game time in all of the big Eurpean leagues, and the vast majority were developed in the youth systems of the old NSL clubs who invested heavily in their youth pathways. But of course the old NSL clubs with their 'ethnic' history were heavily criticized and ostrasized by the inner city focus group/consultancy crowd, when they should have actually been key components of the future national competition and a critical part of the future direction of the game. Instead all of that investment of time and effort into youth collapsed with the introduction of the A-League, and being more specific the disastrous $56m world cup bid came at the expense of the future development of youth and the local league. The governing bodies and A-League clubs have pocketed the transfer money for their young stars and rested on their laurels, and then once the established national team players eventually retired there was a predictable dearth of talent coming through. Then you have the churn of back-pocket plumber A-League players who simply roll from one team to the next and clog the system, not to mention the state goverming bodies constantly fighting with the national body for money/relevance.

The entire system is a mess, and we have succeeded despite ourselves. In light of this mess, making the world cup 5 tournaments in a row is a big success, make no mistake. I think there are only 4 other countries from the current tournament who have done that.

[mjp]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

There are only so many elite sports people in Australia, and some choose to play AFL, or NRL or Cricket or Union or A league. Compare that to many other countries where they only have soccer as the main sport, so elite sports people are not spread thinly across a number of sports like in Australia.

It's a battle for athletes, no doubt.

Soccer is losing because of a variety of reasons...I'm not sorry (at all) that the AFL has created better pathways for players.

Sorry - I'm just sick of hearing about the sleeping giant that soccer is in Australia - but no-one goes to the games (you think the A-League attendance is bad, you should go to a state league division one game - half the players girlfriends don't show up) and the role models are 00000's of kms away.

It can be fixed it people want to fix it. It needs time and it needs money.

We all laugh at the AFL throwing $ at GWS and GC. And now it's gonna be Tassie. But both the NRL and the ARU had a team in Perth which they refused to maintain...now the bazillions of SA and NZ expats are finding a new sport (and it's Australian footy). Soccer is equally delinquent.

It costs $1500 for a development squad? Well, if it costs $500 for a player to complete a season in an AFL pathway it shouldn't cost $1500 for soccer. The requirements are essentially the same. FIX IT.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

It's a battle for athletes, no doubt.

Soccer is losing because of a variety of reasons...I'm not sorry (at all) that the AFL has created better pathways for players.

Sorry - I'm just sick of hearing about the sleeping giant that soccer is in Australia - but no-one goes to the games (you think the A-League attendance is bad, you should go to a state league division one game - half the players girlfriends don't show up) and the role models are 00000's of kms away.

It can be fixed it people want to fix it. It needs time and it needs money.

We all laugh at the AFL throwing $ at GWS and GC. And now it's gonna be Tassie. But both the NRL and the ARU had a team in Perth which they refused to maintain...now the bazillions of SA and NZ expats are finding a new sport (and it's Australian footy). Soccer is equally delinquent.

It costs $1500 for a development squad? Well, if it costs $500 for a player to complete a season in an AFL pathway it shouldn't cost $1500 for soccer. The requirements are essentially the same. FIX IT.

There's a few issues that I see. I love the A League for starters, and disagree with Sedat around the NSL clubs. I think they needed a clean break to get new people into the sport and build something different.
I understand the sentiment, however for myself I don't have any ethnic affiliation with the NSL clubs so where would I fit? There aren't any Scandinavian clubs that I know of.

Eurosnobbery is a thing. People watch the A Liga and go well it's not the Prem, or Serie A or La Liga a give up on it quickly. The sport is huge here, many people religiously watch the leagues aforementioned but never go to their local league. I believe we need to ditch the salary caps and get more talent into the bigger clubs. Hopefully ( im not sold on this ) there will be a trickle down effect but really there is no right answer here. WU would not have won the GF under these conditions for eg.

I'm mostly with you regarding the participation numbers argument. To me these numbers are always twisted to suit an argument (surprise surpise) and my first question is always who put these together. I mean particpation means what exactly? Are these unique eg are these kids just sporty and into everything ? Basically I always raise an eyebrow to participation numbers on the surface. They need to be looked at properly to get an understanding.

Funding, well yes that's a real thing. AFL clubs are thrown buckets of cash from governments that simply does not exist for the World Game. Victory tried to setup a base at Footscray Park and it was kyboshed, where the Dogs are getting 65 odd million to upgrade a ground for training really. When I looked into this a little further it does seem a legit argument at that pro level (A League v AFL for eg). The Victory base was a resident rejection from memory but it didn't have much backing.

Too many factions, not enough cash, not enough promotion, not enough FTA coverage, not enought talent there's so many issues.

Now the A - League has just gone and sold the next 3 GF's to Sydney which is going to fracture things even more all the while the actual product is as good as it's ever been as displayed by the great performance at the World Cup. It truly was amazing. Comparing to Morocco isn't a reasonable argument this is a once in a lifetime achievement by them.

I really hope they have a plan, as the A League is on life support atm.

[MrMahatma]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

The Socceroos does have a bit of the 1990s doggies about it. "We had a crack and now the real teams can win the trophy".

You gotta commend the players and Arnold on what they served up in Qatar. Better than pretty much anyone expected from that squad. Clearly the issues around talent and pathways, and A-League relevance... are massive structural ones. Will the administrators get to say "our pathways are clearly working because that was the best WC performance the country has ever had"? The bar of expectation is generally pretty low for the Socceroos - make the WC and have a crack. Nothing else. I bet more people in Australia watch the Euros than the Asian Cup, and that's a tourney we should flat out be expected to be in the frame of winning each time.

I vote Union and Rugba Leege merge and that'll free up some talent.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Funding, well yes that's a real thing. AFL clubs are thrown buckets of cash from governments that simply does not exist for the World Game. Victory tried to setup a base at Footscray Park and it was kyboshed, where the Dogs are getting 65 odd million to upgrade a ground for training really. When I looked into this a little further it does seem a legit argument at that pro level (A League v AFL for eg). The Victory base was a resident rejection from memory but it didn't have much backing.

Tv audience and attendance for AFL is huge and that is why they get the funding. A- League is fighting a losing battle until they can build the numbers up.

I vote Union and Rugby League merge and that'll free up some talent.

They are two different games.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Tv audience and attendance for AFL is huge and that is why they get the funding. A- League is fighting a losing battle until they can build the numbers up.




They are two different games.

It's a terrible cycle they're stuck in.

[Sedat]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

There's a few issues that I see. I love the A League for starters, and disagree with Sedat around the NSL clubs. I think they needed a clean break to get new people into the sport and build something different.
I understand the sentiment, however for myself I don't have any ethnic affiliation with the NSL clubs so where would I fit? There aren't any Scandinavian clubs that I know of.

Eurosnobbery is a thing. People watch the A Liga and go well it's not the Prem, or Serie A or La Liga a give up on it quickly. The sport is huge here, many people religiously watch the leagues aforementioned but never go to their local league. I believe we need to ditch the salary caps and get more talent into the bigger clubs. Hopefully ( im not sold on this ) there will be a trickle down effect but really there is no right answer here. WU would not have won the GF under these conditions for eg.

I'm mostly with you regarding the participation numbers argument. To me these numbers are always twisted to suit an argument (surprise surpise) and my first question is always who put these together. I mean particpation means what exactly? Are these unique eg are these kids just sporty and into everything ? Basically I always raise an eyebrow to participation numbers on the surface. They need to be looked at properly to get an understanding.

Funding, well yes that's a real thing. AFL clubs are thrown buckets of cash from governments that simply does not exist for the World Game. Victory tried to setup a base at Footscray Park and it was kyboshed, where the Dogs are getting 65 odd million to upgrade a ground for training really. When I looked into this a little further it does seem a legit argument at that pro level (A League v AFL for eg). The Victory base was a resident rejection from memory but it didn't have much backing.

Too many factions, not enough cash, not enough promotion, not enough FTA coverage, not enought talent there's so many issues.

Now the A - League has just gone and sold the next 3 GF's to Sydney which is going to fracture things even more all the while the actual product is as good as it's ever been as displayed by the great performance at the World Cup. It truly was amazing. Comparing to Morocco isn't a reasonable argument this is a once in a lifetime achievement by them.

I really hope they have a plan, as the A League is on life support atm.

Great post and agree with most of it except the bolded bit. You need passion and tribalism, otherwise the code ultimately withers on the vine - this passion can come from heritage/ethnicity and it can come from geographical location. With regard to the first point, instead of celebrating the heritage/ethnicity of the people who built this game, those in charge at the time fell for the trap set by the mainstream media (to assist the domestic codes) by vilifying these migrant populatons - rival codes know that the global nature of the game was the real strength of football, so they cleverly turned this strength it into an ethno/political millstone. And of course the consultants/focus group crowd have a genuine animosity, disdain and disgust for the grass roots people who actually built this game, so had no hesitation in completely freezing them out of the new era to predictably disastrous effect (after an initial spike which peaked not long after the 2006 World Cup). The ethnic/political stuff was amplified in the media beyond all proportion - as a result you have an enormous population of former supporters of the likes of South Melbourne, Preston, Heidelberg, Leichhardt, Marconi, Sydney Olympic, West Adelaide, Adelaide City, Melbourne Croatia, Footscray JUST, etc.. who have completely disengaged with the game, and why would you blame them after being treated like lepers by a bunch of faceless suits who have zero passion for football and absolutely zero skin in the game.

Things needed to change but the entire focus was on ethnically cleansing the game, as though that was a cancer on the game instead acknowledging that it was a key element keeping it afloat for so long - those in charge effectively threw the baby out with the bathwater. Making it worse was the fact that these NSL clubs were the ones actually identifying and successfully developing young talent. And the real problem, federal and state governing bodies clashing for both relevance and control of the purse strings, has never been adequately rectified and continues to be as disconnected as it has ever been.

So rinse and repeat. Enjoy the big tournaments and forget about the game for 3.5 years except for the odd World Cup qualifier in Kyrgyzstan at 3am.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

We lacked players with enough senior football exposure and I think that was a genuine challenge for us.

Could we buy into a Championship team and use that as a vehicle to bring our National players either younger and older through?
Yes it's not premier league standard but it's still a strong competition where they get to play a lot of football.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

We lacked players with enough senior football exposure and I think that was a genuine challenge for us.

Could we buy into a Championship team and use that as a vehicle to bring our National players either younger and older through?
Yes it's not premier league standard but it's still a strong competition where they get to play a lot of football.

It's a really strong competition. Celtic would be a mid ranked championship team.
We have so many guys in the SPL we should go there!

[soupman]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Now the A - League has just gone and sold the next 3 GF's to Sydney which is going to fracture things even more all the while the actual product is as good as it's ever been as displayed by the great performance at the World Cup.

What absolute bellends.

I guess it's a good demonstration that for all it's claims that it is held back by external factors the A-League is so frequently and unnecessarily it's own worst enemy.

This decision has already soured so much of the momentum the World Cup has generated. So many fans and potential fans are interested again, and now this weeks big showcase game, the Melbourne derby, is gonna feature both active groups walking out at the 20 minute mark in protest of this decision. What a stupid own goal from the league.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

What absolute bellends.

I guess it's a good demonstration that for all it's claims that it is held back by external factors the A-League is so frequently and unnecessarily it's own worst enemy.

This decision has already soured so much of the momentum the World Cup has generated. So many fans and potential fans are interested again, and now this weeks big showcase game, the Melbourne derby, is gonna feature both active groups walking out at the 20 minute mark in protest of this decision. What a stupid own goal from the league.

Yep absolute pillocks.

I tried to mount a case for it, I mean the guaranteed revenue if used wisely could be a boon for the game but the consultation just wasn't there and the non Sydney supporters are apoplectic.

[soupman]

Re: 2022 FIFA World Cup

Yep absolute pillocks.

I tried to mount a case for it, I mean the guaranteed revenue if used wisely could be a boon for the game but the consultation just wasn't there and the non Sydney supporters are apoplectic.

Even the Sydney supporters that I have seen (including me although I don't support Sydney) think it's bullshit.