2025 AAMI Community Series - Hawthorn V Western Bulldogs Thu 27/2/25 UTAS Stadium, Launceston 5:20PM AEDT

[mjp]

Also Mcreery is far better than a c grader. Half forward is the hardest position on the ground. I’d say his an a grade for that role.

In the last two days I've read the following:

Beau McCreery is an A-Grader.
Laith Vandermeer is the worst player in the AFL.

One averages 9.88 possessions and 0.42 goals per game.
The other averages 10.18 possessions and 0.58 goals per game.

I'm not trying to pluck things out to throw back at everyone - but McCreery is a good player...not an A-Grade half forward (one day he might be!!)...and VDM isn't the worst player in the comp.

I kind of agree with a lot of what BD is saying about our list being over-rated by SOME commentators (mostly those trying to fire shots at the coach and using the 'list' as a reason to do it) but equally saying we are lacking in the mids, forwards, key backs etc...like - is anyone paying attention to what's been happening?

MIDS: We had 2x AA mids last year and added Richards - then 25 years old and a good runner - to the mix. We also added Sanders (top 10 pick) and Kennedy (top 10 B&F at another finals side)...
Small Forwards: You might be right (not dangerous enough) but everyone seems to LOVE Rhylee West and is predicting big things, Weightman is a gun (not sure what you mean by not disciplined) and we hardly lost when we ran out with those two + McNeil and VDM. The club then DRAFTED two more forwards - small-medium - in Hynes and Dolan with their first two picks in the draft and one is playing today.
Key Backs: We have Jones and Lobb who are QUALITY. Buss is a first round pick. Gardner, JOD and Buku have short-comings but they are depth and can generally speaking hold down a spot...take Stephen May out of Melbourne or Darcy Moore out of Collingwood and see how those clubs go?

I actually find it hard to criticise the club in terms of adding depth in areas of need....I wish we got in another ruck but we didn't - but we did in 2024 and maybe he just needs more game time at Footscray? And recruiting another mature body would compromise those plans? Who knows...

Happy for all of the shots in the world to be fired but I'm not sure how the world works when McCreery is A-grade and VDM is the worst in the comp.

BTW BD - I know you didn't say VDM was the worst player in the comp - I'm dragging that across from another thread and if my post is implying you said it, well...it wasn't meant too.

[Sedat]

Agree 100% MJP. Players like VDM and McNeill do some of the most insane amount of unrewarded running and sprinting in the competition. Without them our F50 would be a trampoline the minute the ball hits the deck.

[Mofra]

For me the difference is other teams role players play a vital role in impacting the game to the point where some role players are first picked in selection. Our role players have no impact in the game and probably because they are not up to it so we call them role players. I remember Rocket Eade saying Liam picken and Dale Morris were first picked every week for the jobs they did. We had better players earning lots more money but the jobs Liam and Dale did won us games of footy by keeping their opponents quiet. We cannot say that about our role players week in and week out. If Bont doesn’t have a good day to make up for the 3 we have not touching the footy we lose. If Bont has a blinder those 3 aren’t exposed

I'd suggest Bramble as a bargain basement pick up is vital to our ball movement and the epitome of an important role player.

[doggies ftw]

In the last two days I've read the following:

Beau McCreery is an A-Grader.
Laith Vandermeer is the worst player in the AFL.

One averages 9.88 possessions and 0.42 goals per game.
The other averages 10.18 possessions and 0.58 goals per game.

I'm not trying to pluck things out to throw back at everyone - but McCreery is a good player...not an A-Grade half forward (one day he might be!!)...and VDM isn't the worst player in the comp.

I kind of agree with a lot of what BD is saying about our list being over-rated by SOME commentators (mostly those trying to fire shots at the coach and using the 'list' as a reason to do it) but equally saying we are lacking in the mids, forwards, key backs etc...like - is anyone paying attention to what's been happening?

MIDS: We had 2x AA mids last year and added Richards - then 25 years old and a good runner - to the mix. We also added Sanders (top 10 pick) and Kennedy (top 10 B&F at another finals side)...
Small Forwards: You might be right (not dangerous enough) but everyone seems to LOVE Rhylee West and is predicting big things, Weightman is a gun (not sure what you mean by not disciplined) and we hardly lost when we ran out with those two + McNeil and VDM. The club then DRAFTED two more forwards - small-medium - in Hynes and Dolan with their first two picks in the draft and one is playing today.
Key Backs: We have Jones and Lobb who are QUALITY. Buss is a first round pick. Gardner, JOD and Buku have short-comings but they are depth and can generally speaking hold down a spot...take Stephen May out of Melbourne or Darcy Moore out of Collingwood and see how those clubs go?

I actually find it hard to criticise the club in terms of adding depth in areas of need....I wish we got in another ruck but we didn't - but we did in 2024 and maybe he just needs more game time at Footscray? And recruiting another mature body would compromise those plans? Who knows...

Happy for all of the shots in the world to be fired but I'm not sure how the world works when McCreery is A-grade and VDM is the worst in the comp.

BTW BD - I know you didn't say VDM was the worst player in the comp - I'm dragging that across from another thread and if my post is implying you said it, well...it wasn't meant too.

Two different posters with differing opinions I guess - I said VDM was worst player in the comp I also said McCreery is a C grader.

Also I said worst consistently picked player in the comp, VDM hasn’t been dropped in years he plays every game when fit. Is there a worse player in the competition who is a lock in their respective side? I’d be surprised, if there is there’s not many.

Unrewarded running hey, must be nice to be a lock in a team and literally the only trait you bring is unrewarded running…. Maybe he should start doing some rewarded running so he can actually pressure an opponent, lay a tackle or get a disposal. I’d guess that the reason he’s good at finding space up the ground is because his opponent literally does not care to mind him, it doesn’t actually drag anyone out of our forward line they just let him do what he wants because he has less hurt factor than basically anyone else.

our options are limited in this position but geez we have to have someone better than VDM literally playing every game he’s available for

[doggies ftw]

Agree 100% MJP. Players like VDM and McNeill do some of the most insane amount of unrewarded running and sprinting in the competition. Without them our F50 would be a trampoline the minute the ball hits the deck.

Agree on McNeil, but VDMs pressure and tackle stats are non-existent so it’s hard to say he’s having that much impact on keeping the ball in.

He does cut down on open space really well to block holes but geez surely you have to offer more than just that to play AFL footy. That can’t be your only contribution to a football team, otherwise we may as well convince Gout Gout to join up as cat B and put him on the forward flank, he’d have a similar level of footballing ability and a much better runner!

In all seriousness, cutting off the angles and closing down open space could easily be done by someone like Harmes

[Bulldog Joe]

Just arrived at the ground
Nice afternoon with a strong breeze to the city end

[Grantysghost]

For those who don't give LVDM and McNeil any credit at all, just watch what they do without the ball for a bit and see if you come to the same conclusion.
It's an easy test.

[doggies ftw]

So Bev mentioned the 4 on the emg are just subs for today and won’t play unless needed. So that’s Gardner, Buku, Poulter, Jones - makes more sense that Gardner is picked over Buss then as he’s back up for ruck/fwd too. Buku back up for def.

Shows that Dolan is definitely ahead of AJ in the coaches mind and also we’ll be going with 2 talls in defence for now, Croft also in front of Gardner for forward/ruck

[Bigdog]

In the last two days I've read the following:

Beau McCreery is an A-Grader.
Laith Vandermeer is the worst player in the AFL.

One averages 9.88 possessions and 0.42 goals per game.
The other averages 10.18 possessions and 0.58 goals per game.

I'm not trying to pluck things out to throw back at everyone - but McCreery is a good player...not an A-Grade half forward (one day he might be!!)...and VDM isn't the worst player in the comp.

I kind of agree with a lot of what BD is saying about our list being over-rated by SOME commentators (mostly those trying to fire shots at the coach and using the 'list' as a reason to do it) but equally saying we are lacking in the mids, forwards, key backs etc...like - is anyone paying attention to what's been happening?

MIDS: We had 2x AA mids last year and added Richards - then 25 years old and a good runner - to the mix. We also added Sanders (top 10 pick) and Kennedy (top 10 B&F at another finals side)...
Small Forwards: You might be right (not dangerous enough) but everyone seems to LOVE Rhylee West and is predicting big things, Weightman is a gun (not sure what you mean by not disciplined) and we hardly lost when we ran out with those two + McNeil and VDM. The club then DRAFTED two more forwards - small-medium - in Hynes and Dolan with their first two picks in the draft and one is playing today.
Key Backs: We have Jones and Lobb who are QUALITY. Buss is a first round pick. Gardner, JOD and Buku have short-comings but they are depth and can generally speaking hold down a spot...take Stephen May out of Melbourne or Darcy Moore out of Collingwood and see how those clubs go?

I actually find it hard to criticise the club in terms of adding depth in areas of need....I wish we got in another ruck but we didn't - but we did in 2024 and maybe he just needs more game time at Footscray? And recruiting another mature body would compromise those plans? Who knows...

Happy for all of the shots in the world to be fired but I'm not sure how the world works when McCreery is A-grade and VDM is the worst in the comp.

BTW BD - I know you didn't say VDM was the worst player in the comp - I'm dragging that across from another thread and if my post is implying you said it, well...it wasn't meant too.

I said A Grade “for that role”. The only other Half Forward that plays a sacrificial role id have over him would be Will Hayward off the top of my head.

I don’t have a problem with VDM outside of durability and finishing. Would play him every week on account of his intensity and work rate.

I don’t have an issue with what the club has added. I’m very happy with our draft haul this year. I just don’t think we have as good a list as other clubs. We are mid road. And there are pieces we need to find IMO.

[doggies ftw]

For those who don't give LVDM and McNeil any credit at all, just watch what they do without the ball for a bit and see if you come to the same conclusion.
It's an easy test.

Most clubs have players that do what they do off the ball but offer at least SOMETHING with the ball. That’s the point. Zero issues what they do off the ball but that’s not enough.

Mcneils okay, if he can just take his chances in front of goal he would be a very handy role player on both defence and offence. He fluffs too many easy chances at this stage but hopefully can tidy it up

[lemmon]

I'm at the ground, beautiful afternoon for footy. JOD is the deepest defender on Gunston, Lobb is playing high on Chol.

[lemmon]

Croft is playing wing and looking huge next to Massimo

[mjp]

Agree on McNeil, but VDMs pressure and tackle stats are non-existent so it’s hard to say he’s having that much impact on keeping the ball in.

He does cut down on open space really well to block holes but geez surely you have to offer more than just that to play AFL footy. That can’t be your only contribution to a football team, otherwise we may as well convince Gout Gout to join up as cat B and put him on the forward flank, he’d have a similar level of footballing ability and a much better runner!

In all seriousness, cutting off the angles and closing down open space could easily be done by someone like Harmes

I kind of get this but when Harmes played half-forward he didn't do that...he wanted to get his own footy rather than play the role he was being asked...that's why he ended up back at Footscray. Being able to do it and actually doing it are just not the same.

I said A Grade “for that role”. The only other Half Forward that plays a sacrificial role id have over him would be Will Hayward off the top of my head.

I don’t have a problem with VDM outside of durability and finishing. Would play him every week on account of his intensity and work rate.

I don’t have an issue with what the club has added. I’m very happy with our draft haul this year. I just don’t think we have as good a list as other clubs. We are mid road. And there are pieces we need to find IMO.

Well, McCreery plays that role so you're saying he's an 'A-grade' player...and that's fine (you can only be judged based on your role)....and Hayward is a much higher impact player (or has been) ball in hand so....

With the list, you said the mids are slow and ageing, the forwards are either no good or ill-disciplined (you singled out Weightman) and the key backs were no good now Jones is out. Now you're saying the club has done well at the draft but they still need pieces...what pieces.

Sorry - I must be grouchy today.

[Bigdog]

Well if you are in the best 2-3 players in the league for a specific role I think they are a grade for there specific role but it doesn’t mean I think his Leigh Matthews.

I’m not knocking the club and saying they aren’t doing what can to address list holes with cards they are dealt. I just don’t think our list is better than mid road which is all part of a cycle. Subsequently I think bevo is doing a good job which was the genesis of my original post.

Well if you are in the best 2-3 players in the league for a specific role I think they are a grade for there specific role but it doesn’t mean I think his Leigh Matthews.

I’m not knocking the club and saying they aren’t doing what can to address list holes with cards they are dealt. I just don’t think our list is better than mid road which is all part of a cycle. Subsequently I think bevo is doing a good job which was the genesis of my original post.

Do you think we have the best list in the league?

Potentially some of these holes have been addressed in the draft, but I’m not going to hang my head on Draftees. Would be like a north or Richmond supporter saying they have the best list in the league based in hopes of the draft. Therefore I think we are short PROVEN QUALITY as of now in the following areas (Draftees might become the player we hope in future):

- Half Back - I like Jacques, could be one in time. Actually think he would’ve been line ball to play round 1 had he been fit.
- Lockdown Defender
- Key Defender - I like JOD but don’t think his a key defender. And we don’t really know what we have down there. Buss has come a long way - could be the player in time but probably not ready. Buku is a better forward imo. Gardner is a break glass.
- Wingman - Davidson has been good today and looked okay at training. Could be one in time.
- Small Forward
- Outside Mid 

Also never said the small forwards were no good, I said they’re not dangerous. I want a small forwards who can get to the feet of the talls and also get dangerous at stoppage. Our small forwards are young hard working role players not reliable goal kickers.

Even from what I have seen of Dolan he looks more a high half forward with creativity. I haven’t seen much on his goal nous.

I’m also a huge fan of Hynes from what I’ve seen. He probably is one that can get a goal from nothing. Don’t think his fit enough to bring much defensively though.

Also on the key backs I never said they were no good. I said they were an issue with jones being injured as frankly we don’t know what our make up looks like without Jones.

I think we have done well at the draft but it’s really speculative and we probably won’t see the fruits for a couple of years. I’m looking at the now.

[lemmon]

McNeil playing like Eddie Betts at the moment and Sanders has been fantastic

[Grantysghost]

Who's that number 30?