Tim English and the ruck dilemma

[Mantis]

I know it is another issue but stats do not tell the truth.

In the words of Benjamin D"israeli

There are lies
There are damned lies
and there are statistics.

Comparing his stats in his in his AA year Tim to the 1st 2 games goes as follows:

Disposals - 19.1 v 12.5
Marks - 6.3 v 4.5
HO - 31.2 v 29
Clearances - 3.3 v 2.5

Understand it's only a small sample size, but his ability to be involved in general play which was a huge strength in the AA year is a long way off, and given known shortcomings in ruck battles he needs to get his hands on the ball more to be an influential player.

[doggies ftw]

Had a crack tonight Timmy, happy with that. tDK was pretty good too but I thought Tim had a real crack around the ball, took front position a lot which showed some intent, that’s literally all I’m asking for - props to him

[josie]

Had a crack tonight Timmy, happy with that. tDK was pretty good too but I thought Tim had a real crack around the ball, took front position a lot which showed some intent, that’s literally all I’m asking for - props to him

Just needs to clunk those marks & kick goals like he used to around the ground. His ruck work is better this year so far.

[jazzadogs]

Had a crack tonight Timmy, happy with that. tDK was pretty good too but I thought Tim had a real crack around the ball, took front position a lot which showed some intent, that’s literally all I’m asking for - props to him

Kudos to you doggies for acknowledging his improved performance. TDK definitely had his measure around the ground, and Tim had some really bad moments, but it was a solid ruckman's game. He actually won the hitouts which is not common.

[jeemak]

TDK is going to be something special, especially when he improves his ruck craft. I thought Tim was a bit smart for him at times, but TDK is still really strong and competitive, and racks them up.

Tim's game disappointed me at times. Just not clean enough when he needed to be. But, he kept at it and had an impact as well. Par.

[SonofScray]

Had a crack tonight Timmy, happy with that. tDK was pretty good too but I thought Tim had a real crack around the ball, took front position a lot which showed some intent, that’s literally all I’m asking for - props to him

Interestingly, thought the opposite. It’s OK that he isn’t hard as a cats head, but I’m not happy with how timid he’s being with the physical aspects of the game. Two elements that really took me from mildly frustrated to blowing a valve :

1. in the air he is planting both feet and jumping straight up in the air instead of moving to the ball. I appreciate it’s an approach he has in his toolkit. He’s often done this when he’s behind the ball and cutting the footy off over the years, but in pack, contested situations, you need to get moving and attack the footy. He’s not some spud that it’s OK to just be a body and halve the contest. He’s there to mark the footy and jump into people.

2. one arm tackles. I think this is a fitness issue and maybe a concussion thing but regardless of the origin, it’s not Ok. Keep moving, retard them with the tackle, affect the flow of play. Instead, we get one armed efforts and the classic p, let the opposition take possession, then tackle rather than really compete. A better fitness base probably,ales the difference here,

[doggies ftw]

Interestingly, thought the opposite. It’s OK that he isn’t hard as a cats head, but I’m not happy with how timid he’s being with the physical aspects of the game. Two elements that really took me from mildly frustrated to blowing a valve :

1. in the air he is planting both feet and jumping straight up in the air instead of moving to the ball. I appreciate it’s an approach he has in his toolkit. He’s often done this when he’s behind the ball and cutting the footy off over the years, but in pack, contested situations, you need to get moving and attack the footy. He’s not some spud that it’s OK to just be a body and halve the contest. He’s there to mark the footy and jump into people.

2. one arm tackles. I think this is a fitness issue and maybe a concussion thing but regardless of the origin, it’s not Ok. Keep moving, retard them with the tackle, affect the flow of play. Instead, we get one armed efforts and the classic p, let the opposition take possession, then tackle rather than really compete. A better fitness base probably,ales the difference here,

I thought he was stronger and more determined than usual in the actual ruck contests, I agree though I don’t know what’s happened to him around the ball - just doesn’t seem to be moving that well and has completely lost his pack marking ability, you’re right he needs to split the packs and dominate those aerial contests which he’s just not doing. It’s a big concern considering his contract

[dog town]

Your ruck so often becomes your out number on defence and Tim just won’t compete at the moment. If we had dropped the game last night I would have been putting a large portion of the blame on his poor aerial work behind the ball. I can’t think of any player that has regressed so alarmingly in such a short time.

He has never been consistently courageous with his intercept game but he would still get in the way and take the easy ones. We need him to start marking the ball urgently.

[hujsh]

If Tim can get back, not even his around the ground work (which TBH apart from the rare kick running from a center square stoppage I have never really found that valuable,) but just his marking and aerial presence, then I do think we have a good ruckman on hand given his improvement at the non bouce ruckwork.

He's not ever going to be a contested ball weapon but if he can be a competent middle of the road ruck, with elite running capability used to kill defensive contests, then we have a finals-effective type of ruck. Even better if he can remember how to kick a goal from 20m out.

Couldn't care less if he has 10 less 25 meter diagonal chips after waiting way too long to move the ball forward.

Editing to add that TDK had 7 stoppage clearances and 4 intercept marks. Tim had 1 of each.

Tim's hit out win% was 47.2 vs 37.3. This was very much Tim in the role of the old school ruck who wins the taps and does not much else.

[Rusty12]

Had a crack tonight Timmy, happy with that. tDK was pretty good too but I thought Tim had a real crack around the ball, took front position a lot which showed some intent, that’s literally all I’m asking for - props to him

He is getting better every week, in many areas, but still almost.
He just needs to, keep building that competitive edge, but hold onto a few more marks, and kick straight when he get's his chance in front of goal.
He had a lot more good moments on Friday, but at one point, I think he dropped 3 marks in 3mins as well.

TDK is awesome.

[SonofScray]

Jeff White on Twitter did some interesting analysis of his tsp work, for folk who like that level of review.

[Bornadog]

Jeff White on Twitter did some interesting analysis of his tsp work, for folk who like that level of review.

[Scorlibo]

Tim has had his 2nd and 3rd worst rated games since mid-2020 to start this year. He's been a frustrating player over the journey and probably was given more opportunity than was earned but his 2022-2023 seasons were elite with his intercept marking and clearance work both features.

Last year a bit disappointing only relative to the heights of 2023. But now THIS YEAR his strengths are nowhere to be seen. The clean hands below the knees, reading of the flight of the ball and assuredness backing back in defence. He's out of the handball club, membership revoked.

To me, although he will never be a big bruising ruckman with presence, he plays his best football when he at least TRIES to be an arsehole. Would like to see him make a statement game against Fremantle/Jackson to set himself back on track. Otherwise it could be a long five years ahead for him and the club.

[Uninformed]

In rating Tim, how many games have we lost because the oppo. ruck outgunned Tim by a huge margin. I would say none.

If he is at least close to neutralising the effect of the oppo. ruck and we are winning more games than we lose then he is on the right side of the ledger.

Nothing to see here.

[JanLorMill]

In rating Tim, how many games have we lost because the oppo. ruck outgunned Tim by a huge margin. I would say none.

Very funny
I’ve tried to forget each of our last 6 finals losses too.