Sharp Axes

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Sharp Axes

It also highlights our somewhat failings in our other seasons under bevo. A premiership and grand final appearance is great. So are the finals appearances. But shouldn't we have done more in those appearances than some awful elimination final losses? Winning a flag and nearly getting another means we clearly had the talent. Why haven't we been able to back it up?

Yep. Back to back prelims with Plough. Three prelims in a row with Rocket. How we haven’t gone deep into finals for several years in a row with the same coach and similar playing list is confounding.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Sharp Axes

Yes we haven't had success like the last 9 years -

7 finals wins in 12 years with no top 4...

A flag followed up by a loss to Melbourne in a GF a handful of years later. Pretty sure we’ve done that before…

It’s not all bad clearly. But it should’ve been a shitload better than what we’ve got to date.

[D Mitchell]

Re: Sharp Axes

I have to totally disagree with your assessment. BMACC may have had the matra the we must win cont poss, but under Rocket we were the top 3 team in contested possession in all of the years he coached us. BMACC taught nothing new.
Under BMACC we were lucky to kick a goal - one of the worst coaches I have seen at the club, along with Rhodes, and Royce Hart.

Bolded bit. 2009 2nd in contested possessions finished 4th, 2010 2nd finished 4th, 2011 8th finished 10th. McCartney arrived November 2011. For the 2012 season, 27 players on the list were under the age of 21 years, 12 had played no games at all, a further 7 had played fewer than 10 and another 8 between 10 and 20 so 27 fewer than 20 games. McCartney made his philosophy public, contested ball, winning contests and "cracking in". New or rehashed, stats for the previous 3 years vindicated him. He should be given credit for that.

https://afltables.com/afl/seas/ladders/laddersyby.html#2010

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/2010s.html

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

Bolded bit. 2009 2nd in contested possessions finished 4th, 2010 2nd finished 4th, 2011 8th finished 10th. McCartney arrived November 2011. For the 2012 season, 27 players on the list were under the age of 21 years, 12 had played no games at all, a further 7 had played fewer than 10 and another 8 between 10 and 20 so 27 fewer than 20 games. McCartney made his philosophy public, contested ball, winning contests and "cracking in". New or rehashed, stats for the previous 3 years vindicated him. He should be given credit for that.

https://afltables.com/afl/seas/ladders/laddersyby.html#2010

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/2010s.html

As i said he was one of the worst coaches we have ever had.

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

Yep. Back to back prelims with Plough. Three prelims in a row with Rocket. How we haven’t gone deep into finals for several years in a row with the same coach and similar playing list is confounding.

7 finals wins in 12 years with no top 4...

A flag followed up by a loss to Melbourne in a GF a handful of years later. Pretty sure we’ve done that before…

It’s not all bad clearly. But it should’ve been a shitload better than what we’ve got to date.

I will argue we had more talented players under Terry and Rocket than under Bevo but we didn't make one GF

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Sharp Axes

I will argue we had more talented players under Terry and Rocket than under Bevo but we didn't make one GF

Wallace took us to a prelim from being the worst surviving team the previous year.

I would argue that Bevo has had more high end talent available.

[D Mitchell]

Re: Sharp Axes

As i said he was one of the worst coaches we have ever had.

Gee, that was quick, BAD. I'm not commenting on his coaching ability, just that I believe that he can take and is entitled to be given credit for his part in preparing the team.

[D Mitchell]

Re: Sharp Axes

Wallace took us to a prelim from being the worst surviving team the previous year.

The 1996 team was far better than 14th. The captain and assistant coach complaining to the Board about the Coach who had lost the players. Those 1997-1999 and 2008-2010 teams were exceptional.

[Mofra]

Re: Sharp Axes

Why is it an either/or?

That stat speaks to more of our lack of success than anything else.

Or... we don't recognize a decent coach when we get one?

Maybe Bevo has overstayed his tenure and there are issues with communication, but I don't think he's suddenly lost tactical nous.

[anfo27]

Re: Sharp Axes

Many good points here.

But I can't agree with any side with Bont is a top four side. The AFL isn't the NBA.

Bont isn't just the best player on our list. He should be seen by the time he is done the best bulldog of all. If we don't have a top 4 list then thats an indictment on the people in charge of putting the list together. How have we not looked at Bont & figure out how do we build a list around him. We've bloody had long enough to figure that out.

[anfo27]

Re: Sharp Axes

I have to totally disagree with your assessment. BMACC may have had the matra the we must win cont poss, but under Rocket we were the top 3 team in contested possession in all of the years he coached us. BMACC taught nothing new.
Under BMACC we were lucky to kick a goal - one of the worst coaches I have seen at the club, along with Rhodes, and Royce Hart.

Happy for anyone to disagree. Not many people ever agree with me about anything so you're not on your own. I can't agree with you either cause the stats might say that but to my eye we were never good enough in contested ball to be a serious contender under Eade. Our 2016 side would beat Rockets side every day of the week & twice on Sunday.
Again I'm on my own with this but I was a fan of BMac. Everyone could see the losses & lack of goals. All I saw was a contested style of game that once we did make finals we had the contested ball game to win them. I was actually gutted when BMac left but him leaving clearly the list was ready to add the offensive string to their bow.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Sharp Axes

Or... we don't recognize a decent coach when we get one?

Maybe Bevo has overstayed his tenure and there are issues with communication, but I don't think he's suddenly lost tactical nous.

The discussion was simply making finals not being the be all, especially when we lose most years in the first final. Bevo hasn’t overstayed, he’s got two more years. Like VDM has, isn’t that right easternwest?

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

Happy for anyone to disagree. Not many people ever agree with me about anything so you're not on your own. I can't agree with you either cause the stats might say that but to my eye we were never good enough in contested ball to be a serious contender under Eade. Our 2016 side would beat Rockets side every day of the week & twice on Sunday.
Again I'm on my own with this but I was a fan of BMac. Everyone could see the losses & lack of goals. All I saw was a contested style of game that once we did make finals we had the contested ball game to win them. I was actually gutted when BMac left but him leaving clearly the list was ready to add the offensive string to their bow.

Anfo, I enjoy your different opinion, so no problems from me at all.

I think under Eade, we lacked a tall target to compliment the 2008 and 2009 teams. Those teams were better than the 2010 team, especially 2009. We weree only in the prelim in 2010 beacuse Hall kicked 80 odd goals that year. If only we had him the year before

However, take a look at the 2009 prelim team with names like Griffen, Boyd, Cooney, Hargrave, Cross, Higgins, Harbrow, Morris, Lake, Johnson, Gilbee, Gia, Hahn, Murphy, Aker, Ward, Minson, Eagleton, Picken and Scott Welsh and Tim Callan

That is the team that should have won the Premiership in 2009

[anfo27]

Re: Sharp Axes

Anfo, I enjoy your different opinion, so no problems from me at all.

I think under Eade, we lacked a tall target to compliment the 2008 and 2009 teams. Those teams were better than the 2010 team, especially 2009. We weree only in the prelim in 2010 beacuse Hall kicked 80 odd goals that year. If only we had him the year before

However, take a look at the 2009 prelim team with names like Griffen, Boyd, Cooney, Hargrave, Cross, Higgins, Harbrow, Morris, Lake, Johnson, Gilbee, Gia, Hahn, Murphy, Aker, Ward, Minson, Eagleton, Picken and Scott Welsh and Tim Callan

That is the team that should have won the Premiership in 2009

You look at the names you listed & its hard to disagree. Bloody good names there! Comparing the teams I just think the 2015 & 2016 team were the hardest team I've ever seen & thats the difference. Clay Smith is the toughest player ever, would run through a brick wall for his team mates. Would love to relive 2016.

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

You look at the names you listed & its hard to disagree. Bloody good names there! Comparing the teams I just think the 2015 & 2016 team were the hardest team I've ever seen & thats the difference. Clay Smith is the toughest player ever, would run through a brick wall for his team mates. Would love to relive 2016.

There was something about those teams in 15/16. The tackling and never giving up was amazing. We got beaten by Adelaide only due to inexperience.