stats, stats, stats

[stefoid]

Re: stats, stats, stats

If memory serves, turnovers are handballs or short kicks that end up (somehow) with the opposition. They dont count long kicks to contests as turnovers, but they do include long kicks directly to an opponent.

Sure, they dont tell the whole story. The closer you are to goal, the harder it is to get the ball into a teammates hands, with that last crucial 'score assist' disposal usually being the hardest, unless the opposition defence has totally broken down.

Most of Grifs work is done forward of centre, so he has to take the hard kicks, so maybe he gets some slack, but the difference between him being a good outside player for us and a great one is turning 2 or 3 of his turnovers into scoring involvements. Same goes for Boyd.

I also read into those stats that Murph is on track for a good season and is really important for us - at the moment he is winning the ball in the backline (playmaker) and turning it into shots on goal. playmaker isnt receiving a handball, its beating your opponent or winning a free in a contest or rewarded tackle, that launches a scoring chain for your side. playmakers are gold. by definition, they are good disposals under pressure, whereas a score involvement might be a recieve in space. Still important, but not necessarily under pressure.

turnovers, on the other hand, are by definition indications of poor disposal.

The stats dont lie in that roughie had a good game against brisbane, getting involved in a a few scoring chains - good on him. Its only one game though.

Obviously we expect to see Cooney progress up the scoring charts and fade down the turnover chart as the season progresses, since fit and firing he is hands down our best mid.

As for crossie, usually he is higher up the rankings, but maybe libba and ward are cutting his lunch a bit in that regard. This is good for the team

The problem with Stats is that it is hard to really cover contingencies.

Is it a turnover when somewhere clears from the backline to an empty forward area and the ball is gathered by the opposition?

Should it be a turnover if it passed to a player on the lead who either drops the ball or gets spoilt. Is any weighting given to the degree of advantage afforded by the delivery. Some absolute shanks get to a team mate, but a well executed pass can be thwarted by good opposition play.

It would be better to know if they chose the better or best option and executed the skill.

On the stats listed Roughead is ahead of Hudson in relation to the team scoring. We all know this is clearly not the case.

[stefoid]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Should add, only one game in yes, but sherman got a lot of the ball against brisbane, forward of centre and did jack shit with it.

Had 7 inside 50s, (2 more than anyone else in the team), but had 9 turnovers, 4 critical errors (turnover resulting in opposition shot on goal, which is pretty impressive considering brisbane only had 15 shots on goal)

He had no goal assist or scoring assists! he did kick one goal himself.

He has a score of 1 playmaker and 1 scoring involvement so far.

Again, only 1 game, but he really needs to start hitting targets, because he is getting a lot of the ball forward of centre and just pissing it away. A quick outside midfielder that gets heaps of the ball and does nothing with it is a liability.

[ledge]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Should add, only one game in yes, but sherman got a lot of the ball against brisbane, forward of centre and did jack shit with it.

Had 7 inside 50s, (2 more than anyone else in the team), but had 9 turnovers, 4 critical errors (turnover resulting in opposition shot on goal, which is pretty impressive considering brisbane only had 15 shots on goal)

He had no goal assist or scoring assists! he did kick one goal himself.

He has a score of 1 playmaker and 1 scoring involvement so far.

Again, only 1 game, but he really needs to start hitting targets, because he is getting a lot of the ball forward of centre and just pissing it away. A quick outside midfielder that gets heaps of the ball and does nothing with it is a liability.

I give him a little slack, he does get the hard ball as an outside midfielder, he breaks tackles and no doubt he will have days everything will go right, settling in to a new team and different game plan (god knows what Voss game plan is) it will come if he keeps getting the ball the way he does.
Very impressed with his hardness.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: stats, stats, stats

A propensity to give away free kicks at crucial stages more like it.

Yes Will has had some issues with umpiring decisions, but he is not as bad as some believe on the free kicks, that's if you want to look at the stats.

[1eyedog]

Re: stats, stats, stats

[QUOTE=Bulldog Joe;207077]Yes Will has had some issues with umpiring decisions
but he is not as bad as some believe on the free kicks, that's if you want to look at the stats


No it's not the umpiring decisions he has had problems with it's his inability to physically exert himself on a contest without giving away legitimate free kicks. In order to suggest that the stats indicate that Will doesn't give away that many free kicks you would need to assess how many contests he gets to full stop regardless of whether he gets a possession or not. That data is simply lacking.

High free kick counts both for and against are higher for running midfielders who are constantly on the ball. Will simply doesn't get to enough contests to give away high free kick counts so may be low on this stat, but my point is that when he does get to contests he gives them away.

I hope he can turn lots of things around in his game when he gets the chance, but in all reality he gives away too many free kicks and drops too many marks when he gets two hands to the ball. A bloke his size should take morethan he does. The upside of Will I agree is that he can will himself on a contest and his goal kicking is not too bad, not in the Jolly class, but for his size it's not too bad. I'm leaning towards developing Roughhead now.

[Desipura]

Re: stats, stats, stats

That is being selective Desi.

My views on Will do not rely on stats, but I did quote some that show Will compares better than most believe.

The real value that Will offers won't show up with stats. He brings an aggression at the contest that tires opponents and you won't find a stat for that.

Selective a bit like stats BJ?

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: stats, stats, stats

[QUOTE=Bulldog Joe;207077]Yes Will has had some issues with umpiring decisions
but he is not as bad as some believe on the free kicks, that's if you want to look at the stats


No it's not the umpiring decisions he has had problems with it's his inability to physically exert himself on a contest without giving away legitimate free kicks. In order to suggest that the stats say that Will doesn't give away that many free kicks you would need to assess how many contests he gets to regardless of whether he gets a possession or not. That data is simply lacking.

The stats provide a free kick ratio scale which is obviously at the higher end of both free kicks for and against with regard to ball winners. Will simply doesn't get to enough contests to give away high freek kick counts so may be low on this stat. My point is that when he does get to contests he gives them away.

I hope he can turn lots of things around in his game when he gets the chance, but in all reality he gives away too many free kicks and drops too many marks when he gets two hands to the ball. A bloke his size should take morethan he does. The upside of Will I agree is that he can will himself on a contest and his goal kicking is not too bad, not in the Jolly class, but for his size it's not too bad.

If you look at his stats for and against you will find that he has improved significantly from his early years.

In 2010 he reduced his differential to -0.27 with 1.33 for (total 20) and 1.60 against(25) on a per game basis. Shows that he didn't give away that many. As a comparison Jolly at Collingwood gave away 21 more frees in 11 more games and had a differential of -0.25 per game.

[1eyedog]

Re: stats, stats, stats

If you look at his stats for and against you will find that he has improved significantly from his early years.

In 2010 he reduced his differential to -0.27 with 1.33 for (total 20) and 1.60 against(25) on a per game basis. Shows that he didn't give away that many. As a comparison Jolly at Collingwood gave away 21 more frees in 11 more games and had a differential of -0.25 per game.

Thanks for highlighting that. Glad to see some improvement over the years but as he develops you would expect this.

My point still stands, IMO and I have no stats to back this up, Jolly rucks over longer periods than Will and is invloved in far more contests, I bet he wins a heap more free kicks too. Comparing Jolly's return to Will's is like comparing the French to the Germans.

[stefoid]

Re: stats, stats, stats

I give him a little slack, he does get the hard ball as an outside midfielder, he breaks tackles and no doubt he will have days everything will go right, settling in to a new team and different game plan (god knows what Voss game plan is) it will come if he keeps getting the ball the way he does.
Very impressed with his hardness.

Hardness is fine, but our achilles heel is disposal under pressure, and if youre not part of the solution, then youre part of the problem.

Libba is definitely part of the solution.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Thanks for highlighting that. Glad to see some improvement over the years but as he develops you would expect this.

My point still stands, IMO and I have no stats to back this up, Jolly rucks over longer periods than Will and is invloved in far more contests, I bet he wins a heap more free kicks too. Comparing Jolly's return to Will's is like comparing the French to the Germans.

Sorry but I was incorrect with the first one's on Jolly
Averages per game in 2010

Jolly Frees For 1.385 Free Against 1.846 Total Frees Involvement 84
Minson 1.333 1.667 45

I take your point on contests but this shows that when the whistle blows Jolly is more likely to have a free paid against him.

[LostDoggy]

Re: stats, stats, stats

The Pro Stats website has Libba's tackle count wrong. Did he make 6 tackles (as stated on Pro Stats) or 10 (as stated everywhere else) against Brisbane?

[1eyedog]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Sorry but I was incorrect with the first one's on Jolly
Averages per game in 2010

Jolly Frees For 1.385 Free Against 1.846 Total Frees Involvement 84
Minson 1.333 1.667 45

I take your point on contests but this shows that when the whistle blows Jolly is more likely to have a free paid against him.

Okay fair enough

[GVGjr]

Re: stats, stats, stats

That is being selective Desi.

My views on Will do not rely on stats, but I did quote some that show Will compares better than most believe.

The real value that Will offers won't show up with stats. He brings an aggression at the contest that tires opponents and you won't find a stat for that.

I like your views on Minson. Hudson is better at the moment but Minson could very well be the number 1 ruckman for us next season.

[The Coon Dog]

Re: stats, stats, stats

I can't confirm this but a guy at work told me today that after 2 rounds St.Kilda lead the inside 15's!

[EasternWest]

Re: stats, stats, stats

I can't confirm this but a guy at work told me today that after 2 rounds St.Kilda lead the inside 15's!

I feel dirty just giggling at that.