stats, stats, stats

[Greystache]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Cross hasn't been too bad, but Boyd really needs to lift. The outside players are way down.

Cross' % is high because most times he gets the ball he holds it up and the goes short to a player sideways. It makes your disposal efficentcy % high, but it kills the momentum of the team.

[Bornadog]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Cross' % is high because most times he gets the ball he holds it up and the goes short to a player sideways. It makes your disposal efficentcy % high, but it kills the momentum of the team.

At least he hits a target unlike say Boyd.

[Bornadog]

Re: stats, stats, stats

What percentage makes for an acceptable pass mark? Not being facetious, serious question.

Looks like the best midfielders are above 70%.

[Greystache]

Re: stats, stats, stats

At least he hits a target unlike say Boyd.

Boyd could up his too by doing the same thing, but if he did we'd never score. Anyone can hit a target 15m away in open space who's not being defended because they're not in a dangerous position. The bulk of Cross' possession in open play are valueless.

[Bornadog]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Boyd could up his too by doing the same thing, but if he did we'd never score. Anyone can hit a target 15m away in open space who's not being defended because they're not in a dangerous position. The bulk of Cross' possession in open play are valueless.

Its easy to sit back and say that stats are misleading and pick out a couple of times this happens and then fling dirt.

Greystache, I know you don't like Cross, but please next time you go to the footy, keep some stats on how many times this happens with Cross and report back. Then we can see some facts.

eg. Against the Suns, posters came on and said that Stack fumbles too much and doesn't hit targets. I went back to the replay and counted how many times this happened in that game and the answer was nil. People get a preconception about a player due to seeing a couple of errors and that seems to stick into their mind instead of all the good things they do.

Maybe Cross does do what you say, and if so I am the first to agree with you. Maybe I am not as observant as you are during a game.

[Maddog37]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Harder to hit clear targets when our team does not spread well too.

I do believe the balance is somehow not right with Cross, Ward, Libba, Boyd, Picken and Wallis all playing.

Are the above two points linked?

[Bornadog]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Harder to hit clear targets when our team does not spread well too.

I do believe the balance is somehow not right with Cross, Ward, Libba, Boyd, Picken and Wallis all playing.

Are the above two points linked?

I agree, too many in and under types.

The discussion was about the midfields effciency disposal %. Cross has the highest in the midfield, but Greystache says most of his disposals are valueless.

[Greystache]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Its easy to sit back and say that stats are misleading and pick out a couple of times this happens and then fling dirt.

Greystache, I know you don't like Cross, but please next time you go to the footy, keep some stats on how many times this happens with Cross and report back. Then we can see some facts.

eg. Against the Suns, posters came on and said that Stack fumbles too much and doesn't hit targets. I went back to the replay and counted how many times this happened in that game and the answer was nil. People get a preconception about a player due to seeing a couple of errors and that seems to stick into their mind instead of all the good things they do.

Maybe Cross does do what you say, and if so I am the first to agree with you. Maybe I am not as observant as you are during a game.

I think Cross has been a great player for the club and I admire a player who gets the most out of themselves, to say I don't like Cross is wrong. However I think the nature of footy these days has seen the game go past Cross.

I've watched him very closely at games, his first instinct is to go backwards or sideways. It's only when he doesn't have any options that he'll reluctantly look to kick forward. A player who does that will always have high efficiency %, but the effectiveness of those possessions are minimal, mostly because it gives the opposition time to set up defensively meaning the player he gives the ball to then has a wall of players in front of him.

[Bornadog]

Re: stats, stats, stats

I think Cross has been a great player for the club and I admire a player who gets the most out of themselves, to say I don't like Cross is wrong. However I think the nature of footy these days has seen the game go past Cross.

I've watched him very closely at games, his first instinct is to go backwards or sideways. It's only when he doesn't have any options that he'll reluctantly look to kick forward. A player who does that will always have high efficiency %, but the effectiveness of those possessions are minimal.

Well maybe Moles, Cooney, or Griffen should be running pass to get the handball, its not his fault if he has the guts to put his head over the ball to find no backup. This is one of our biggest issues. Guys like Swan are surrounded by outside runners, but our in and unders often have no one to dish off to so they slam the ball on the foot or hand pass sides ways looking for someone.

[Greystache]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Well maybe Moles, Cooney, or Griffen should be running pass to get the handball, its not his fault if he has the guts to put his head over the ball to find no backup. This is one of our biggest issues. Guys like Swan are surrounded by outside runners, but our in and unders often have no one to dish off to so they slam the ball on the foot or hand pass sides ways looking for someone.

You're confusing the two different situations. When Cross wins the ball in a contest (usually through a courageous act) and doesn't have any runners to give the ball out to that's the fault of the outside players. When he gets given the ball in space and he holds up play and then goes sideways to another player in space that's Cross' fault.

I'm talking about the latter scenario.

If Cross was our primary extractor that would be fine, but he's not a great stoppage player, and we have an abundance of inside midfielders in Boyd, Libba, Cross, Ward, Cooney, and Wallis, and Picken, Cross doesn't have another dimension to his game.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Doggoneit, Cross has to be the most devisive player in here.
From "can't live without him"...to "can't live with him".

[jeemak]

Re: stats, stats, stats

You're confusing the two different situations. When Cross wins the ball in a contest (usually through a courageous act) and doesn't have any runners to give the ball out to that's the fault of the outside players. When he gets given the ball in space and he holds up play and then goes sideways to another player in space that's Cross' fault.

I'm talking about the latter scenario.

If Cross was our primary extractor that would be fine, but he's not a great stoppage player, and we have an abundance of inside midfielders in Boyd, Libba, Cross, Ward, Cooney, and Wallis, and Picken, Cross doesn't have another dimension to his game.

I think this post is spot on.

With exception to Cross being a player that can drop back and take a mark in front of opposition forwards. The downside of this though, is often when the ball isn't kicked long in to our backline Cross is busy gaurding space and not manning a loose player receiving the next, shorter kick in.

The game has passed by players that don't have an ability to move the ball forward by foot as a first instinct. Particularly midfielders in a side that is lacking for outside run.

For this I think Cross needs to have his place in the side looked at by some supporters just as often as Gia does. Gia's main deficiency is his inability to apply quick defensive pressure once he's not in a position to get it himself. Cross rarely being able to kick the football proactively causes just as many issues.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Cross' % is high because most times he gets the ball he holds it up and the goes short to a player sideways. It makes your disposal efficentcy % high, but it kills the momentum of the team.

100% agree

At least he hits a target unlike say Boyd.

Not much value in hitting a target if the target is placed worse than you were when you got the ball 30 secs earlier.

There is simply more pressure on the next disposal because Cross took to long and passed off responsibility for doing something constructive.


Rating Cross as more efficient than Griffen just shows the stupidity of stats.

Griffen at least tries to do something constructive and creates more scoring opportunities.

[Scorlibo]

Re: stats, stats, stats

Top AFL AVERAGE DISPOSALS with effective disposals

1. Sam Mitchell - 74.5
2. D Swan - 70.3
3. Boyd - 68.3
4. J Watson - 70.1
5. M. Murphy - 71.3
6. Mundy - 76.9

12. Cross - 73.9
12. C Judd - 64

15. R Griffen - 62.3

24. Higgins (4 games only) 62.4

49. Cooney - 62.6

Cross hasn't been too bad, but Boyd really needs to lift. The outside players are way down.

What outside players? All of Griffen, Cooney and Higgins are first and foremost contested football players. This is a tremendously overrated statistic anyway. Having watched every game this year I can comfortably say that Griffen has been far more effective than he has been in any of his other midfield seasons.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: stats, stats, stats

What outside players? All of Griffen, Cooney and Higgins are first and foremost contested football players. This is a tremendously overrated statistic anyway. Having watched every game this year I can comfortably say that Griffen has been far more effective than he has been in any of his other midfield seasons.

and far more effective with the ball than anyone else going through the midfield.

I would prefer Griff have it once then Cross have it 2 or 3 times, even allowing for the so called efficiency stats.