Whats our bigger issue?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Also available around the Howard pick apart from Fyfe, Menzel and Pittard were Ryan Bastinac and Luke Tapscott. Both rising star round winners.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

We were looking for very good kicks of the ball as a first priority with Howard and Tutt -- this strategy might still pay off if you consider where our team is currently at.

How long will we have to wait?

A lot of the other players drafted around that range (Fyfe, Menzel) have already seriously contributed to their sides and are undoubtedly long term players.

Howard and Tutt have shown signs on occasion, but that's really it.

I think Tutt can carve out a solid career, but Howard is coming from a really long way back.

[stefoid]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

How long will we have to wait?

A lot of the other players drafted around that range (Fyfe, Menzel) have already seriously contributed to their sides and are undoubtedly long term players.

Howard and Tutt have shown signs on occasion, but that's really it.

I think Tutt can carve out a solid career, but Howard is coming from a really long way back.

Is he? compared to 5 or 6 picks in the first round that have come on quickly, well yeah.

Comapred to the other picks before and after him, he is about on course.

Have a look at the first round, ( which we had the 2nd last pick of) and tell me how many of those guys are more than fringe players for their teams? not many.

And you could name a player or two at Tutts pick (31) that you might rather with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I am pretty happy with a guy who is quick, a long booming kick and a chance to play midfield for us this year. Just what we need!

You are setting yourself up for disapointment if you expect every 1st/2nd round pick to become best 22 players within 3 years of being drafted.

[Bornadog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

You are setting yourself up for disapointment if you expect every 1st/2nd round pick to become best 22 players within 3 years of being drafted.

This^^^^

[comrade]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

You are setting yourself up for disapointment if you expect every 1st/2nd round pick to become best 22 players within 3 years of being drafted.

Why shouldn't we expect a first round pick to at least be a contributing best 22 player within 3 years? Especially if he's a small-mid sized player.

[Bornadog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Why shouldn't we expect a first round pick to at least be a contributing best 22 player within 3 years? Especially if he's a small-mid sized player.

Looking at those drafted in 2009, see below:



Out of a possible 45 games (home and away, ie 2010, 2011 and 1 game this year), 32 players were drafted and only half have played more than 15 games and 12 have played less than 10 including Howard and Tutt.

It does take at least 3 years to get going for some players whereas there those that have played over 30 games (9 players) and the ones you want.

Just showing this for interest and discussion.

[Mofra]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Good table BAD, although difficult comparison given talls generally take longer and kids all come into the system with different builds.

Looks like Essendon & North nailed their picks at first glance, I did like the look of Carlisle when I saw him in the VFL

[Greystache]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Good table BAD, although difficult comparison given talls generally take longer and kids all come into the system with different builds.

Looks like Essendon & North nailed their picks at first glance, I did like the look of Carlisle when I saw him in the VFL

I saw a lot of him last year and I was extremely impressed. Given he was thrown into defence to cover injuries when he'd been a forward as a junior I thought he did a brilliant job. It'll be interesting to see what they do with him in the future, whether than keep developing him as a forward or whether they play him in defence.

Also given how skinny he was when drafted he certainly has bulked up.

[Bornadog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Good table BAD, although difficult comparison given talls generally take longer and kids all come into the system with different builds.

Looks like Essendon & North nailed their picks at first glance, I did like the look of Carlisle when I saw him in the VFL

That really was one of my points when we were discussing how good we are at drafting. I guess it depends what your list management priorities are and when you expect your draft pick to be playing.

eg, We have been told Howard was picked to eventually replace Gilbee. Now they are easing Howard into it so the transition begins? (not sure if this is correct, but just saying)

[comrade]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Looking at those drafted in 2009, see below:



Out of a possible 45 games (home and away, ie 2010, 2011 and 1 game this year), 32 players were drafted and only half have played more than 15 games and 12 have played less than 10 including Howard and Tutt.

It does take at least 3 years to get going for some players whereas there those that have played over 30 games (9 players) and the ones you want.

Just showing this for interest and discussion.

That just proves we blew the Howard pick badly.

Fyfe, Menzel, Duncan, Tapscott, Bastinac, Colyer and Pittard were all highly credentialed and went through the elite pathway in U/18 - is it any wonder they have exceeded Howard's output?

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

That just proves we blew the Howard pick badly.

Fyfe, Menzel, Duncan, Tapscott, Bastinac, Colyer and Pittard were all highly credentialed and went through the elite pathway in U/18 - is it any wonder they have exceeded Howard's output?

It's a reasonable argument given Howard didn't play in the U/18 carnival and unlike a number of SA draftees hadn't been a League level player.

That being said, it's as though we don't (or didn't) place as much of a premium on selecting players who can impact immediately. Perhaps the success of Libba last year, and Smith this year shows we are now giving greater consideration to immediate impact as well as the longer term. Dahlhaus and Schofield both gave us similar last year playing a number of games. As of right now, Libba and Dahlhaus both project as good long term prospects. and have also provided the immediate impact.

At the end of the day we need kids who can play, but if we perceive some are more ready to play than others should it be a consideration?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

A bit both ways. I think we lack fire power, our key guys don't seem to have a big bag of tricks, or just don't bring it with them. I wish we'd convert more opportunities in front of goal, especially from set shots. We need to take our chances.

Skills in general were poor. Wood just made a mess of everything and there were a lot of hurried, poor passes by hand which caused a turnover.

I will say it again that Wood was terrible and makes too many errors as a defender. Given his dash he maybe better suited to a wing. Cross who is as game as they come shouldn't be played consistently on a wing due to his lack of mobility and now appears to do his best work dropping back in defence and being good overhead may well be better placed at half back.

[Bornadog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

That just proves we blew the Howard pick badly.

Doesn't prove anything, as I said earlier, Howard may have been targeted as the replacement for Gilbee and was recruited knowing he won't be playing in his first season.

It's a reasonable argument given Howard didn't play in the U/18 carnival and unlike a number of SA draftees hadn't been a League level player.

That being said, it's as though we don't (or didn't) place as much of a premium on selecting players who can impact immediately. Perhaps the success of Libba last year, and Smith this year shows we are now giving greater consideration to immediate impact as well as the longer term. Dahlhaus and Schofield both gave us similar last year playing a number of games. As of right now, Libba and Dahlhaus both project as good long term prospects. and have also provided the immediate impact.

At the end of the day we need kids who can play, but if we perceive some are more ready to play than others should it be a consideration?

I agree with you, some players you may want to play straight away and others later. Talls for instant take longer to mature. Have a look at the table above and you can see Butcher has only played 5 games for example, but is considered a great prospect for the future. Talia won't be playing seniors this year in my opinion unless he shows some extraordinary talent at Willi.

[Dazza]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

I think going forward. If we are drafting tall forwards with low picks they need to have aggression and arrogance. For mine skills and athleticism are less important for a big man.

Look at Jack Watts, Jarrod Grant and Everitt as an example.

All the skills and athleticism in the world but it isn't translating into being good players at the moment.

Need the arrogant brutes like Franklin, Hurley and J.Reiwoldt. You could add Butcher to this group soon.

[Mofra]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

That just proves we blew the Howard pick badly.

Fyfe, Menzel, Duncan, Tapscott, Bastinac, Colyer and Pittard were all highly credentialed and went through the elite pathway in U/18 - is it any wonder they have exceeded Howard's output?

I understand it was Howard vs Pittard for the pick.
Howard had hip issues in his first year, and Pittard has played in a less credentialled team so should be a little ahead in games played.

At this stage we certainly do seem to be behind most other sides though for this draft.