Whats our bigger issue?

[GVGjr]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

This.

Have said it many, many times, but the first round simply can't be used on speculative picks, and we've tried to be too clever a few too many times. All of Williams, Higgins, Everitt, Grant and Howard were taken at picks above what they were rated. I expressed significant disappointment when EVERY SINGLE ONE of those players was drafted with the various picks we had in the first round (as I was with Smith).

Now I know that sometimes you have to reach to fill needs, and Smith looks like an over-reach that may pay off (early days yet), but in every single one of those drafts there were at least 3-4 players left that were locks to be VERY good quality AFL players (and have gone on to prove that), but we went for those we thought had more upside (like Williams) or X-factor (like Everitt, Howard and Grant). First round picks simply have to be blue-chip locks, not high-potential penny stocks. That's what the later picks/rookie draft is for (which we have admittedly done brilliantly in).

On top of 'reaching' for players with early picks you would also be very aware that a couple of years back I was very concerned with our passive list management that had us making minimal changes with what was a rapidly aging list. I think we are now paying the price for not making the right calls on players and giving them the marching orders and also for some very questionable rookie list promotions.
We know have a list manager in place and I'm hoping that appointment works really with Dalrymple and his recruiting team.

By the way, I particularly agree with you on the section I have highlighted.

Brendan McCartney certainly has his work cut out for him but I think he can develop this group through the season.

[comrade]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

I am sorry, but you can say that about nearly every team. Unless you can compare our drafting history to other clubs, you can't make these comments. Drafting boys at age 17 about to turn 18 is not an easy task. Just ask, Melbourne, Richmond and many other clubs. Carlton have what 3 or 4 number one draft picks and only now are starting to be considered a top four team.

At the end of the day, we need a team built, not just good first round picks. Look at Collingwood, they play as a team, same as Hawthorn. Hopefully, BmAc can build us to be a team.

Today we had 11 players, ie half the team that haven't even played 50 games yet, and that's what we are lacking, experience.

Collingwood play as a team but that team is built around genuine stars such as Pendlebury and Thomas (Cloke was a F/S selection that may have gone first round at market value). Ben Reid & Steele Sidebottom are also very skillful players that I would deem above average.

Hawthorn is the perfect example of nailing the first round. Buddy, Cyril, Roughy & Hodge are the core of that team.

[The Underdog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

A lot of the points you are making are related to players being in development. You don't expect developing players, players with one or two AFL preseason to perform at the top level. Compare oranges with apples.

Of course Dickson isn't going to have the fitness base of a third year AFL player. He trained for 1 hour a week last year.
Of course you can expect Smith to cramp up. There is only so muchyou can expect from young players like Liam Jones, or even Libba or Wallis, when they are in their second year. But they are learning and are improving.

I agree completely that these players are developing but your original point was that the gap between the teams general efforts wasn't accurately reflected on the scoreboard. I contended that the effort may not of been but that they were a vastly superior side in almost every other facet which was reflected on the scoreboard. The stage that players are at is irrelevant to my original point. Players like Jones, Smith and Dahlhaus will improve in coming years as they get further pre-seasons into them, but that won't help us bridge the gap now. Comparing oranges and apples is irrelevant to my contention as their apples are a mile better than our oranges in almost every way.

[Mantis]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

I walked out of today thinking we need to come bottom 5 just so we can maximise the 2 picks we have in the first round.

We were in the 4 or 5 worst performing sides this round so it isn't a stretch to believe this won't be a reality on what we've seen so far.. But there's a long way to go, but I ain't holding my breath.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

I agree completely that these players are developing but your original point was that the gap between the teams general efforts wasn't accurately reflected on the scoreboard. I contended that the effort may not of been but that they were a vastly superior side in almost every other facet which was reflected on the scoreboard. The stage that players are at is irrelevant to my original point. Players like Jones, Smith and Dahlhaus will improve in coming years as they get further pre-seasons into them, but that won't help us bridge the gap now. Comparing oranges and apples is irrelevant to my contention as their apples are a mile better than our oranges in almost every way.

It's not car racing. There are lots of variables. I'm saying yes, the eagles are better, but not unbeatable and if we are switched on, we should be able to be much closer next time. If we had been able to hold on, well, you can't say what score board pressure can do.

So today's game was unwinable from the start? That's not the way it flowed for 3 quarters though was it?
How about the Markovic decision, when he was held and it went against him? Brian's foolish attempt of mark of the year.? The fact we have a first time AFL coach? How do you intend to quantify these things?
McCartney deliberately left Marko where he was for the sake of development today. For the sake of something long term. Are you bearing that in mind?

We learn, improve on a few areas and kick straight - suddenly the gap is not so big.
We had our chances, and a better team than us can lose because of stray kicking or a few foolish decisions. That makes them a worse team on the day only.

[Eastdog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

So you are suggesting that game was unwinable from the start? That's not the way it flowed for 3 quarters.
They are a better side today , but not vastly. How about the Markovic decision, when he was held and it went against him? Brian's foolish attempt of mark of the year.? We learn, improve on a few areas and kick straight - suddenly the gap is not so big.

I like what your saying Ghost Dog. For 3 quarters will were with West Coast until they got away in the end. He had a lot of positives and negatives in the game. The season is not a right off yet and the way I see it is only Round 1. Let see how we go in the next couple of weeks. I reckon about 8 rounds in we can then tell how season 2012 will go for us.

[Bornadog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

If you think we are just lacking experience I suspect you are in for a rude shock.

I didn't say that was the only thing lacking.

[Eastdog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

I didn't say that was the only thing lacking.

We have quite a lot of experienced players which is great but these guys are now going a bit past it now. Some of the young kids (Libba, Smith, Dalhaus) are going to be quality players but it will take time for them to reach their full potential. When in that phase of older going a bit past it and younger coming through and that most likely equals a season not finishing top 8. Our skill level is something many poster on WOOF has said needs to improve. Back in 2009 our skill level and run was great.

[gohardorgohome]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Trying to stay positive but I remember going to the footy in the dark days just to watch Templeton when we had an ordinary side. Then I used to go games just to watch Hawkins. I hope I don't end up going to matches this year just to watch Dahlhaus...although I guess there are worse things in life.

Dahlhaus is fantastic to watch......
I suppose the 16 other clubs at the time of his draft must rue the one that got away....
Drafting is such a difficult science.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Here's a question -- we weren't great today, but how the heck did we lose by 126 points to this mob last year? Can anyone really believe that we were premiership favourites 12 months ago?

If a week is a long time in footy a year ago is an eternity away.

[Eastdog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Here's a question -- we weren't great today, but how the heck did we lose by 126 points to this mob last year? Can anyone really believe that we were premiership favourites 12 months ago?

Yeah I think when David Smorgon at the start of the 2011 season said making a Grand Final and anything less was a failure backfired. Remember that for 3 seasons we were great and challenging for the premiership. 2011 we were on the slide but i can see why David thought that we were premiership favourites at the time. We lost to West Coast because we simply could not contain there forward press.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Goal kicking practice is what's is needed as kicking 2 goals 6 in a quarter when the opposition kick 6 goals 3 is very deflating for players and supporters.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

I'd be happy if the ladder stayed the way it is.
What we lack is CLASS, CLASS, CLASS.

I thought the team battled quite manfully and it wasn't a depressing loss for mine.

Markovic deserves a break. He's playing only his 17th game. Kennedy his 91st.
Kennedy is a star.
Even "full back of the century" Steven Silvagni would have days where he was beaten by Pugger or Ablett or Dunstall or Modra.
It was a mis match and there were plenty of times where he DID beat Kennedy in one on ones but no one mentions them. He never gave up or put his head down. I think he deserves some support.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

I'd be happy if the ladder stayed the way it is.
What we lack is CLASS, CLASS, CLASS.

I thought the team battled quite manfully and it wasn't a depressing loss for mine.

Markovic deserves a break. He's playing only his 17th game. Kennedy his 91st.
Kennedy is a star.
Even "full back of the century" Steven Silvagni would have days where he was beaten by Pugger or Ablett or Dunstall or Modra.
It was a mis match and there were plenty of times where he DID beat Kennedy in one on ones but no one mentions them. He never gave up or put his head down. I think he deserves some support.

I did! go Marko!

[LongWait]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

WCE have about 6 players with that experience too.

West Coast had no first year players and only two second year players in their side yesterday - they fielded a vastly more experienced and hardened team than ours.

I think we are rebuilding, despite the public utterances. However it was pleasing to see that our better players included three that haven't yet played 20 games (Liberatore; Dahlhouse and Smith.)