Whats our bigger issue?

[Missing-Dog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

West Coast are more than likely a top 4 side. It was always unlikely that we would win or get close to them.
I thought for 3 quarters we battled on quite well.
Really though, when it comes to the hawks,cats, eagles, magpies...we ain't going to win and we will struggle and look ordinary!
Im more wanting us to get up against the tigers, saints, demons, etc...
Lets hope we are battling it out for that final 8th spot, whilst building for the future.

[mjp]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Collingwood play as a team but that team is built around genuine stars such as Pendlebury and Thomas (Cloke was a F/S selection that may have gone first round at market value). Ben Reid & Steele Sidebottom are also very skillful players that I would deem above average.

Hawthorn is the perfect example of nailing the first round. Buddy, Cyril, Roughy & Hodge are the core of that team.

Beau Dowler. Mitch Thorp.

Yep - Hawthorn have nailed everything.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

West Coast are more than likely a top 4 side. It was always unlikely that we would win or get close to them.
I thought for 3 quarters we battled on quite well.
Really though, when it comes to the hawks,cats, eagles, magpies...we ain't going to win and we will struggle and look ordinary!
Im more wanting us to get up against the tigers, saints, demons, etc...
Lets hope we are battling it out for that final 8th spot, whilst building for the future.

There's a lot of negativity around early in the season!
Even top teams have off days when they can be rolled.

[comrade]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Beau Dowler. Mitch Thorp.

Yep - Hawthorn have nailed everything.

You can't win on every pick but compared to our record, they've drafted very well.

And have a flag to show for it.

[BulldogBelle]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Our skill level overall was simply woeful at times yesterday

Hoping that as the season progresses and more footy is played its going to improve

Bringin in Tutt, Sherman, Griff and even Vez should hopefully improve our skill level (the later 2 more than the former 2)

Scott Clayton helped us with the later picks and rookie picks, but agree his record (apart from Griff and Cooney) in the 1st round especially isnt great looking at it over his tenure at the club

Our approach to the 1st (and at times to the 2nd round) was like a gamblers approach, we gambled on somewhat specultive choices trying to win big rather than making blue chip choices and improving slowly, at times we thought we could convert athletes from other sports into footballers etc


Ray
Power
Grant
Williams (to a degree)
Walsh
McCormack (not sure if he was 2nd or 3rd round but an early choice regardless)
Faulkner
Everitt
Wells

[LostDoggy]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

There's a lot of negativity around early in the season!
Even top teams have off days when they can be rolled.

I think you are going to see more... With the retirements we've had (all the talent the afl gifted to their pet projects) we are absolutely rebuilding and it'll take 3 years minimum for mine. No team can survive the lost of Hall, Hahn, Johno, The Beard, Aker, Ward, Harbrow and effectively Lake, Gilbee and Cooney and expect to stay top 8. The positive is that for once we have lots of tall prospects currently on books and the better kids look like 150 gamers. Gives us time to draft some future silky mids over the next couple of years whilst we sit in the bottom 4-6. It'll make for a heaps quicker turnaround to climb again. Hard on murph and co as the poor guys most likely won't get their flag. It's not negative; just cyclical. Next window will be 2014-17ish so the Jones/Roughy/Cordy/Skinner group will be hopefully in their primes. Very glad we've used the extra picks this year. Better use them wisely as others have outlined.

[Maddog37]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

I think it was a good start in many ways and all I want to see is the glaring mistakes such as blind kicking and poor goal conversion improved over the next few weeks.

Early days for this group.

Lake, shaggy and Coons hopefully will improve. Marko stuck to his guns but was thrown to the wolves.

We really are in rebuild not refresh.

[comrade]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

the positive is that for once we have lots of tall prospects currently on books and the better kids look like 150 gamers.

We just have to hold onto them now. With free agency coming, it'll be easier said than done, considering our list management record over the last 2 years.

[dadsgirl16]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Cannot believe how poorly we kicked.....turnover city!!

[jeemak]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Beau Dowler. Mitch Thorp.

Yep - Hawthorn have nailed everything.

Is Xavier Ellis getting a game?

[comrade]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Is Xavier Ellis getting a game?

Wasn't he pivotal in their GF win before struggling with injury since?

Are you implying that Hawthorn hasn't drafted any better than us in the first round and that their first round picks haven't had a much bigger influence than ours in the same period?

[jeemak]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Wasn't he pivotal in their GF win before struggling with injury since?

Are you implying that Hawthorn hasn't drafted any better than us in the first round and that their first round picks haven't had a much bigger influence than ours in the same period?

He played a good game in the GF. I don't think it's only been injuries that have kept him out of their side in recent years.

I'm not implying anything, BTW. Hawthorn's drafting has been excellent, though they have missed a few first rounders just like everybody else.

We have been disappointing in this area, with Power, Walsh, Ray, Everitt and some others where it's debatable if we got things right.

[SlimPickens]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Biggest issue has to be our skill level, some of the missed targets, grubber kicks and 5 foot handballs missing by 2 feet (Easton!) were just horrible.

We also need to work on our spread from the contest, we have way too many blokes going in full knacker to get the ball and not nearly enough able use it once it has come out. I noted we won the contest possession count yesterday which is a positive, but once we got it going forward the WCE players were there in droves.

I reckon WCE will be right up there this year, so i'm not anywhere near panic stations just yet. There is a fair bit to work on and a hell of a lot to learn, our younger blokes will certainly be better for the experience.

[stefoid]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

Everitt absolutely, Howard perhaps (although at least one other team rated him highly) but disagree on the others.

Williams: Rated a potential top ten for months pre-draft
Higgins: Rated very highly, Marc Murphysaid he was his best opponent in the TAC
Grant: Was touted as our pick very early, highest goal per game ave in his TAC year (from memory, need to confirm)

Even Sam Power was very highly rated as a junior, and there was the Farren Ray vs Brock McLean debate pre-draft that, really, had no winners as it turned out.

It rarely gets a mention, but our record with second rounders is quite poor too compared to other teams and this has put us right back (2008 excepted). Faulkner, Addison, that spud from Tassie (don't mention his name), and then there are the trades - Aker & Street. Will is ok but has taken 10 years to get to where he is, that's a hell of a long lead in for a high secnd rounder.

[Bornadog]

Re: Whats our bigger issue?

It's not just the guys that didn't make it with us (add Power, McMahon and Everitt as first rounders from the 2000s that ultimately played at other clubs) but guys like Williams, Higgins, Grant, Howard and Cordy that just haven't given us the output required from such valuable picks.

One poster said skills is our biggest issue and I agree but if you nail your first round picks in the draft, the team's overall skill level will increase significantly. Guaranteed.

It's because we've messed up our drafting for the last decade that our skills and decision making are so bad right now.

It rarely gets a mention, but our record with second rounders is quite poor too compared to other teams and this has put us right back (2008 excepted). .

You guys have short memories:

Here are the draft picks for the last 5 years:

2007
1. Grant
2. Ward

2008

1. Cordy
2. Roughead
2. Jones

2009

1. Howard
2. Tutt

2010

1. Wallis
2. Libba

2011

1. Smith
2. Talia

Ok we lost Ward but under the circumstances and the money thrown at him, you can't balme him. We picked a winner here.

If you want to go further back:

2006 - Everitt - Tall player showed he was capable at junior level
2005 - Higgins and Addo - Still playing today. Higgins has been hampered by injury, shows leadership qualities.

2004 Griffen - Champion. Williams - Showed he can hold a key position, if he can get a clear run of being injury free.

2003 - Cooney - Brownlow. Ray - Nothing wrong with Ray, we just didn't want him. He has now played in Grand Finals with the Saints.

2002 - Walsh and Faulkner, and Will Minson was also a second round. Ok two out of three didn't work out.

Out of the last ten years we have recruited badly in 2002 for our First and second rounds.

I hate people assuming things when the facts can speak for themselves.