2025 List Management Thread

[Hotdog60]

I take it we will start exit interviews either today or tomorrow. I wonder if the word on Treloar will be, Adam if you get through the VFL games we'll extend for 1 year if you don't you may want to look at retirement.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If we can carry Gardner for god knows how many years and McNeil, I struggle to see how we don't try one more year with Treloar regardless of what happens at VFL level over these next few weeks.

There's plenty we can move on before even considering someone as talented as Adam. He should be viewed as a free hit for 2026 - if he gets up to play regular footy, brilliant. If he doesn't, we know it's the end.

[josie]

If we can carry Gardner for god knows how many years and McNeil, I struggle to see how we don't try one more year with Treloar regardless of what happens at VFL level over these next few weeks.

There's plenty we can move on before even considering someone as talented as Adam. He should be viewed as a free hit for 2026 - if he gets up to play regular footy, brilliant. If he doesn't, we know it's the end.

Hear hear.

And sign VDM (my moniker for him is the headless chook) for 3 more years.

[jeemak]

I think the idea is you lock the likes of VDM and McNeil in as relative known quantities with a bit more consistency in performance to find, and while they help hold you at a level you put resources into developing players brought in after them.

That's if you want to regenerate without rebuilding and dropping.

We all know VDM and McNeil aren't going to shift the dial for us in terms of improvement, but they may just be good hard working citizens and good team mates who can create selection pressure and a professional environment in which new players can thrive in. We are where we are with them in the selection window. Bounce them now and we drop back unless we replace them with equal quality or better quality, but doing the latter two properly is really bloody hard.

Anyone who wants those guys gone doesn't really get it, unless they're calling for a genuine rebuild.

[doggies ftw]

He seems like he’d be trying to compete with Kennedy for a spot rather than Garcia. I can see long term appeal in him, but I’m skeptical about his value to us in 2026.

Perhaps most relevant is that we just drafted Hynes who basically looks to fill that role long term - medium marking forward who can have bursts through the middle.

ideally Kennedy sticks around another couple years before Hynes eventually makes him redundant. I don’t think there’s any in-between period that we’d need to fill that gap with Erasmus. This is one I don’t understand tbh

Yeah very true on Kennedy & Hynes, big big fan of Hynes think he will cement himself pretty quickly - he has been playing wing a bit I think too, could he push Williams to def full time? Again I’m not sure if that makes us better, I prefer Williams on the wing now.

Can’t say I’ve noticed him a lot to be honest so probably don’t know him too well and like I said always happy to have good mature bodied players but it’s not like he’s going to be a token pick upgrade too? Feel he’ll cost a bit for what we’re getting, it really is a strange one.

anyway he seems to have cemented his spot at Freo now and is a WA boy so likely going to be irrelevant you’d think

[doggies ftw]

I think the idea is you lock the likes of VDM and McNeil in as relative known quantities with a bit more consistency in performance to find, and while they help hold you at a level you put resources into developing players brought in after them.

That's if you want to regenerate without rebuilding and dropping.

We all know VDM and McNeil aren't going to shift the dial for us in terms of improvement, but they may just be good hard working citizens and good team mates who can create selection pressure and a professional environment in which new players can thrive in. We are where we are with them in the selection window. Bounce them now and we drop back unless we replace them with equal quality or better quality, but doing the latter two properly is really bloody hard.

Anyone who wants those guys gone doesn't really get it, unless they're calling for a genuine rebuild.

All well and good to say they’re solid depth on the list etc but VDM has never been dropped to the VFL in his career, not once. Personally I’d rather him off the list so Bevo doesn’t ****ing play him.

I get your point with guys like this on absolute peanut contracts, they hold up the bottom of the list, set a standard and just don’t really need much thought or resources like you said. So long as they’re not wasting list spots which let’s be honest on a list of 44 there’s always deadwood to cut anyway, so no real issue there. Although like others put above if it was the difference in keeping Treloar I’d happily cut both.

Relying on them as key cogs of the team though is just incompetent, if we go into another season with either of these two in the starting 23 we deserve to fail. Such important positions on the ground we cannot afford to rely on these two. The myth of what they bring with their ‘repeat sprints’ is surely put to bed now? We can’t defend transition anyway so what are they really doing? Absolutely ****ing nothing, they both can’t even stick a tackle, completely kill any offensive ball movement, couldn’t hit a target or hit the scoreboard - they run quick though, enoughs enough.

Genuine hacks, fine as last resort depth sure. Pretty funny that VDM is going to be 30 when his contracts done! 30 ffs. I honestly don’t think these two would get a regular game at any club in the bottom 4 to be honest, so why are they best 22 locks for us?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think the idea is you lock the likes of VDM and McNeil in as relative known quantities with a bit more consistency in performance to find, and while they help hold you at a level you put resources into developing players brought in after them.

That's if you want to regenerate without rebuilding and dropping.

We all know VDM and McNeil aren't going to shift the dial for us in terms of improvement, but they may just be good hard working citizens and good team mates who can create selection pressure and a professional environment in which new players can thrive in. We are where we are with them in the selection window. Bounce them now and we drop back unless we replace them with equal quality or better quality, but doing the latter two properly is really bloody hard.

Anyone who wants those guys gone doesn't really get it, unless they're calling for a genuine rebuild.

I can cop this argument for VDM and have no issues with him, but McNeil? I don't care how great of a team mate he is, he routinely finishes games with less than 3 kicks and essentially plays every week.

We're absolutely no worse off with anyone else in his role.

[Sedat]

I can cop this argument for VDM and have no issues with him, but McNeil? I don't care how great of a team mate he is, he routinely finishes games with less than 3 kicks and essentially plays every week.

We're absolutely no worse off with anyone else in his role.

I had newfound for respect watching VDM/McNeill repeat sprint every week last year and most of the time it was unrewarded running - they both work their absolute asses off. Unfortunately every team has these types, and VDM/McNeill simply lack the offensive threat and polish against their opposition contemporaries. Even really poor teams like Richmond have guys like Seth Campbell, who is a much more effective and dangerous high-half forward.

Players like Keays, Mannagh, Close, Myers, McCreery, Watson, MacDonald, Moore, GWS x10 players - VDM and McNeill are nowhere near this level of offensive threat (maybe harsh on VDM, he was dangerous in patches early in the year but dropped away badly). We just desperately need depth and quality in this critical area, which is why we drafted Dolan last year (he'll make it I reckon). We need another 1-2 more at least - kudos to West, who has become elite in this area. Also fingers crossed for Weightman to make a full recovery.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I had newfound for respect watching VDM/McNeill repeat sprint every week last year and most of the time it was unrewarded running - they both work their absolute asses off. Unfortunately every team has these types, and VDM/McNeill simply lack the offensive threat and polish against their opposition contemporaries. Even really poor teams like Richmond have guys like Seth Campbell, who is a much more effective and dangerous high-half forward.

Players like Keays, Mannagh, Close, Myers, McCreery, Watson, MacDonald, Moore, GWS x10 players - VDM and McNeill are nowhere near this level of offensive threat (maybe harsh on VDM, he was dangerous in patches early in the year but dropped away badly). We just desperately need depth and quality in this critical area, which is why we drafted Dolan last year (he'll make it I reckon). We need another 1-2 more at least - kudos to West, who has become elite in this area. Also fingers crossed for Weightman to make a full recovery.

Yep, agree with all of this. VDM's running is off the charts and I thought he was fantastic in the first half of the year. His drop off was alarming, and it hurt our transition defence. Not sure why he dropped away so badly.

I think you can get away with playing one of them (VDM) but not both. Good opposition are prepared to almost show them zero respect, knowing full well they won't be hurt offensively, which then makes it harder for Naughton, Darcy and West - because it's solely up to them to score. I think this is partly why we couldn't score as well vs the better sides.

I like Dolan too and I think he'll be a better version of what we get from VDM but as you said, we still need another - a genuine goal sneak.

You can see why we wanted Watson. He would have been a good fit.

[doggies ftw]

I had newfound for respect watching VDM/McNeill repeat sprint every week last year and most of the time it was unrewarded running - they both work their absolute asses off. Unfortunately every team has these types, and VDM/McNeill simply lack the offensive threat and polish against their opposition contemporaries. Even really poor teams like Richmond have guys like Seth Campbell, who is a much more effective and dangerous high-half forward.

Players like Keays, Mannagh, Close, Myers, McCreery, Watson, MacDonald, Moore, GWS x10 players - VDM and McNeill are nowhere near this level of offensive threat (maybe harsh on VDM, he was dangerous in patches early in the year but dropped away badly). We just desperately need depth and quality in this critical area, which is why we drafted Dolan last year (he'll make it I reckon). We need another 1-2 more at least - kudos to West, who has become elite in this area. Also fingers crossed for Weightman to make a full recovery.

Very keen on Dovastan who should be around our first pick, avging 16 touches nearly 6 tackles and 2.4 goals in the u18s this year and looked good for Box hill against us a few weeks back. He’s straight out of the mould we need - fast and aggressive but can hit the scoreboard, reminds me of young Dahlhaus little bit of a scrapper but that’s okay.

I agree Dolan looks good and should be more primed for somewhat of an impact and Arty as well looks ready to take over from VDM/Mcneil as a hard runner with some offensive flair.

My dream, realistic, offseason is Silvagni, Butts for a 2nd and Dovastan with our 1st. A fwd half mix of Cody, West, AJ with Dolan & Dovastan coming through looks potentially very very strong. And a defensive mix of Butts, Lobb & Silvagni and possibly Sellwood looks much more balanced defensively with JOD & Buss coming through.

It really shouldn’t be hard to pull this off to be honest, we can’t sit on our hands and some pretty minor but significant changes like the above could make all the difference

[Virgin-Dog]

Very keen on Dovastan who should be around our first pick, avging 16 touches nearly 6 tackles and 2.4 goals in the u18s this year and looked good for Box hill against us a few weeks back. He’s straight out of the mould we need - fast and aggressive but can hit the scoreboard, reminds me of young Dahlhaus little bit of a scrapper but that’s okay.

I agree Dolan looks good and should be more primed for somewhat of an impact and Arty as well looks ready to take over from VDM/Mcneil as a hard runner with some offensive flair.

My dream, realistic, offseason is Silvagni, Butts for a 2nd and Dovastan with our 1st. A fwd half mix of Cody, West, AJ with Dolan & Dovastan coming through looks potentially very very strong. And a defensive mix of Butts, Lobb & Silvagni and possibly Sellwood looks much more balanced defensively with JOD & Buss coming through.

It really shouldn’t be hard to pull this off to be honest, we can’t sit on our hands and some pretty minor but significant changes like the above could make all the difference

If Croft is permanently forward, Khamis gets traded and JUH delisted, I think we’re suddenly running low on talls. My ideal player for our 1st is Xavier Taylor as a Weddle type. I think we’re fine up forward if we can get Arty, Dolan and Weightman playing a good number of games next year. The entire forward group is very young with huge upside still. Dovaston looked great when he played for Box Hill against us, I’d just be hesitant spending yet another early pick on a forward as we seem to have spent almost all our draft capital on forwards since 2020

For trades, I agree about trying for more than just Silvagni. I’d be happy to overpay for Butts if it means our defence stops being such a liability. Would be going for Bond too considering how much we missed Duryea this year

[doggies ftw]

If Croft is permanently forward, Khamis gets traded and JUH delisted, I think we’re suddenly running low on talls. My ideal player for our 1st is Xavier Taylor as a Weddle type. I think we’re fine up forward if we can get Arty, Dolan and Weightman playing a good number of games next year. The entire forward group is very young with huge upside still. Dovaston looked great when he played for Box Hill against us, I’d just be hesitant spending yet another early pick on a forward as we seem to have spent almost all our draft capital on forwards since 2020

For trades, I agree about trying for more than just Silvagni. I’d be happy to overpay for Butts if it means our defence stops being such a liability. Would be going for Bond too considering how much we missed Duryea this year

Can’t say I know much about Taylor but if he’s a Weddle type sign me up, and yeah I definitely wouldn’t be against spending it in the back half but probably not a tall defender. They just take too long and whilst Buss/JOD are a couple of years in I still very much consider them young developing tall defenders who are 2 years off being anywhere near their best. So I’d rather target the back half with mature & experienced defenders than high draft picks.

Dovastan I like because I consider him a bit different to the smalls we have, similar to El Souki though if we think we’re still a chance to get him with the rule changes so that may be a double up to consider.

Agree would definitely be targeting Bond too, and I’ve made it pretty clear I think Starcevich is a risk we should be willing to take with our cap position and team make up but in saying that he may not be interested in coming to Vic and doesn’t look like a live chance at this stage.

Tall forward we probably need another young one coming through now, although obviously wouldn’t spend super high on one considering our last 4 drafts obviously, we know we can make do with two of Croft, Naughty & Darcy and if we bring in mature defenders like Butts/Silvagni then JOD and Lobb can also go fwd in a pinch as a last resort so I don’t think it’s that bad really for depth across the talls (providing we bring in at least one, ideally 2 defenders). Realistically if you lose two starting key forwards to injury any team is in trouble and not covering that, we’d be better placed than most even without Marra & Buku.

Mids with Freijah and Richards moving there and Sanders, Hynes coming through were pretty set and I’d only be looking at a real high quality one, which you can only really get at the pointy end of the draft with any certainty which we won’t have a pick for (or Butters next year as the perfect Libba replacement.

So I still think a genuine gun small forward is one of our biggest points of need especially the way the games going you need to draft them high right now, and I’d also love a JJ/Bramble replacement or someone to come through under Dale - they’re my 2 biggest needs.

Honestly if we target the backline for mature quality as we should be, the list is in remarkably good shape for a starting 22 but also depth and young quality players coming through in every position.

[doggies ftw]

Other thing I like about bringing in another high quality inside 50 small is it releases West to the midfield rotation, as good as he is forward with Dovastan & Cody coming in West could take Garcia/Sanders mid minutes and I think that makes us a much better side.

Literally all it would take is:

- Butts for ie a 2nd & a decent pick up grade etc
- Secure Silvagni with an extra 50–100k on what we’re offering, who cares at the end of the day.
- Bond, wouldn’t be much probably similar to what we could get for Buku
- 1st rounder on Dovastan

and you could line up with the following round one:

Bond Butts Lobb
Dale Silvagni Bramble

Williams Libba Davo
English Bont Red

West Naughty AJ
Cody Darcy Dolan

Freijah, Kennedy, Sellwood, Croft, Dovastan

With Trelor, Harmes, Sanders, Jacques, Hynes, Baker, JOD, Cleary, Garcia all on the fringe (or in Treloars case if fit in the side)

that’s an outrageously good side and a much more balanced defence, who can actually defend first & foremost and it really wouldn’t take anything special to get it done. Just get it done and bring on round 1 asap

[doggies ftw]

Let’s be completely honest here, assuming we bring in at least one, hopefully two mature key defenders which we absolutely should be. List spots are tight, you could realistically hold one of Gardner or LJones as depth.

Who would we rather as a depth key defender who may be called upon for a game or two? Who’s going to perform better at AFL level. Who’s a better and more experienced leader that we want as a semi-development coach at training. Who do we want at VFL level alongside the likes of Buss bringing them along?

The answer is pretty bloody clear for mine, and it’s not the guy with the contract. Why do we lock ourselves into these 3-4 year deals for guys who are happy to be on a list? We’ll be in this same position in 2 years for VDM, if not sooner. It’s madness, for such a good operator some of these decisions from Power are completely cooked

[doggies ftw]

Dogs interested in Tylar Young, still unsigned at tigers. I actually really like this, good age at 26 - was drafted mature age in ‘22, in ‘23 under siege in that backline he lost 9 from a total of 65 one on ones (13.8%), that is absolutely elite defensive territory. Taylor was the best in the league this year at 15.9%

Didnt reach the same heights in 2024 before doing an ACL but still, that’s enough of a sample size across his only full season at an elite level to show there’s something to work with. He obviously doesn’t offer as much in regards to interceptions or offensive game and probably not well rounded enough to be anything more than a good solid defender but that’s what we want. Someone to take the big blokes and free up Lobb & JOD