LOL Aints

[Jasper]

Re: LOL Aints

So...this isn't wrong.

Most coaches are pretty competent at TEACHING one of two things:

1/. Skill fundamentals.
2/. Match day structures.

The game-style to tie the two together you will see a fair bit of variance in the way individuals going about the teaching process - some players flourish or flounder based on how they click with the game-style teaching of their coach...let's face it, trust is primarily built at training and if you can't do it on the track, well, you wont get the chance to do it in a game.

Where does inspiring the team come into it? I would hope the coach rates 8/10 or 9/10 on both of the areas you have mentioned.
Lyon is a gun coach but he won't have the playing list he enjoyed at the Saints or Fremantle so he will need some more time.
He will make the Saints a harder to beat team.

[Grantysghost]

Re: LOL Aints

Has any coach that's been out the game this long come back to success in the AFL era?

You really have to question this decision. Nostalgia is a powerful drug and whilst you can't deny his defensive acumen the game on and off the field (the relationship with players) has moved exponentially of late and I'll be surprised if Ross has success.

That list is horrible too is a long term project.

It feels desperate.

[Jasper]

Re: LOL Aints

Has any coach that's been out the game this long come back to success in the AFL era?

You really have to question this decision. Nostalgia is a powerful drug and whilst you can't deny his defensive acumen the game on and off the field (the relationship with players) has moved exponentially of late and I'll be surprised if Ross has success.

That list is horrible too is a long term project.

It feels desperate.

How long was Joyce out of coaching before we brought him in to replace Wheels?

[Grantysghost]

Re: LOL Aints

How long was Joyce out of coaching before we brought him in to replace Wheels?

93 at Hawks 94 at Dogs.

He had two stints at the Hawks I think the first was when Alan Jeans was ill. I may be wrong vague memory.

Lethal between Pies and Lions maybe had a break.

Edit : 95 he ended at Pies 99 he started at Lions.
Lyon will be 19 to 23 the same.

[GVGjr]

Re: LOL Aints

What St Kilda will get from Ross Lyon in his second stint at the club



Stand by for Ross Lyon 3.0 to be a warmer and fuzzier version.

The man who was renowned for his prickly press conferences and gruff demeanour will present a different outlook in his anticipated second coming at St Kilda which is good news for 3AW’s Shane McInnes.

Lyon and McInnes famously clashed when he was Fremantle coach after a final in Geelong back in 2013 where he quipped: “You’re quite brilliant, Shane, terrific.”

There has been a considerable warming of Lyon throughout his two years in the media where he became must-listen radio on Triple M’s Sunday Rub and a revelation on Channel 9’s Footy Classified.

“You‘re going to see a different version for sure,” one insider said.

While the hard edge will remain behind the scenes because that’s what St Kilda is buying again, they want him to shake the place up, fix the culture and make the football team relevant again.

But the two years in the media has certainly helped Lyon come out of his shell so to speak according to colleagues.
“You will see more of the real Ross and I think that’s what you saw with the Triple M Ross,” another observer said.

“He was a lot more open, more embracing of people and even cuddly.

“He is very funny Ross, the actual opposite to the hard edge disciplinarian the public saw at St Kilda and Fremantle. He’s actually very humorous, he really can light up the room.”


Lyon always joked he was a “part-timer” in the media and everyone who worked with him isn’t surprised he has gone back into coaching, although they were all aware of how bruised he was after the Carlton experience.

That ended up as a trainwreck after new Carlton president Luke Sayers virtually guarantee him the job following a four-hour meeting only to then have the board overturn his decision and go on to sign Michael Voss.

It made Lyon look silly and he retreated into his shell. Then when opportunities with Essendon and North Melbourne came up this year he politely declined to even engage, partly because he wasn’t a fan of both clubs and their proposed processes, and also the fact he was gun shy.

But St Kilda always held a special place in his heart.

He remained in contact with a lot of St Kilda people despite having done the dirty on them when he left abruptly at the end of 2011, not even telling his own manager about a multimillion-dollar deal he’d done with Fremantle.

As he said on Thursday after a third day of meetings with the Saints hierarchy: “I’m keen, like my heart’s been opened up.”

While Lyon also dabbled in commercial real estate when he returned home to Melbourne after he was sacked from Fremantle before the final round of the 2019 season, jumping into the media was his way of staying relevant.

For those who point to him being three years out of the game as a negative for a coach who was renowned for his tactical acumen, those who worked alongside him over the past two football seasons laugh that off.

“He has kept himself ready, no doubt about that,” a source inside the Lyon camp said.

“He’s on the phone constantly talking to people in footy all the time, he’s across all the trends.”

The timing of club great Lenny Hayes, who spent five years as an assistant coach at the GWS Giants, returning to the fold is also interesting given he’d only recently been spruiking to mates how much he was loving living in the Blue Mountains running beef cattle on a 100 acre farm.

With another of Lyon’s former players Jason Blake now on the Saints board and Justin Koschitzke also set to move back to the town in a role at the new Danny Frawley Centre, there is a sense of the old band being brought back together.

Geelong did that last year, bringing back a handful of favourite sons into the football operation and we saw what happened there.

The role of Eddie McGuire in the Lyon resurrection can’t be underestimated. The pair’s relationship blossomed on the Footy Classified set where they worked together on Wednesday nights.

McGuire helped Lyon get used to the world of television and they became “besties”, which puts weight to one conspiracy theory that the former Collingwood president had some fingerprints over the masterplan at St Kilda.

It was no coincidence that the timing of Ratten’s dismissal, just three months after he’d been handed a new two-year contract, came after St Kilda president Andrew Bassat had just returned from a luxury cruise from New York to Montreal to celebrate mad Saints’ fan and trucking magnate Lindsay Fox’s 85th birthday.

Another business heavyweight with a love for the Saints, Gerry Ryan, was also on the boat and you can imagine the sorry state of another wasted year at Moorabbin was discussed between the three.

While we know Eddie would never put his nose into another club’s business, we’re sure if he was asked for his opinion he may have offered some positive vibes about Lyon 3.0.

[GVGjr]

Re: LOL Aints

Like him, hate him whatever. This is a huge appointment by the Saints and if he can fix the culture and unite the club it won't matter if they don't have a great playing list.
I think he will take up Matthew Lloyd on his offer to work with Max King and his goal kicking.

[EasternWest]

Re: LOL Aints

Good point well made.

Dare to be average, my friend, dare to be average.

I don't have to dare, it comes naturally.

[jeemak]

Re: LOL Aints

I can't believe commercial real estate wasn't enough to keep him relevant. I know a few people in the field and they'll tell you how relevant they are quick smart.

[macca]

Re: LOL Aints

Looks like Lyon going to start next week

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/final-hurdle-removed-in-saints-pursuit-of-lyon-20221018-p5bqlm.html

How does that saying go about insanity go ?

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Didnt Lyon leave the saints witth very little notice?

[macca]

Re: LOL Aints

The structure was already there under Macca, it just that he wasn't a senior coach.

You may have noticed we didn't really change the assistant coaches in the first few years of Bevo. We lost Montgomery because he was too political, but most of the old Geelong boys stayed as did some of the others. The administration was also good, lead by Peter. So Bevo waltzed in and pulled the footy department together to create his team.

I recall Bevo mentioned the defensive side of the game was already there.
In 2016 was an extraodinary year , we just jelled as a team and everyone stepped up and played out of their skins .
We had a fearsome fwd pressure line
Picken, smith , dalhaus, dickson and Cordy agreession and effasive knee
Boyd and Roughead playing dual position ruck
BOYD , Morris and easton wood in fine all australian form in the backline


Real depth with players who may have played barring bad luck with injury :
JONG, suckling , Prudden , even wallis. Sucklings long bomb goals kept us in a few games.All these players i wished they could have played more games for us

We won the vfl that year as well by a fair margin , smashing casey/melbourne in the final. I was there at the vfl Grand final and felt blessed to see such a good team

[jeemak]

Re: LOL Aints

Looks like Lyon going to start next week

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/final-hurdle-removed-in-saints-pursuit-of-lyon-20221018-p5bqlm.html

How does that saying go about insanity go ?

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Didnt Lyon leave the saints witth very little notice?

He did a deal outside of his management and blindsided the Saints, however, he did give one of the best and as far as I can tell most honest answers for doing so.

In his words he had investments that went tits up and put him back a long way, and saw signing with Freo as a way out of a financial mess. Now he probably didn't go about it the right way, but at least he didn't bullshit about it being for anything other than money.

There's something in that, even if he is a bit of a jerk who managers can't trust (which mightn't be a bad thing in itself).

I've heard a lot of stories about how much of a shit bloke he can be, but as MJP says, the guy can coach.

[Mofra]

Re: LOL Aints

Lethal between Pies and Lions maybe had a break.

Must. Not. Mention. COLA....

[Mofra]

Re: LOL Aints

Looks like Lyon going to start next week

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/final-hurdle-removed-in-saints-pursuit-of-lyon-20221018-p5bqlm.html

How does that saying go about insanity go ?

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Didnt Lyon leave the saints witth very little notice?

Are there any other options?
Yze seems to be the most lauded of untried coaches, but the Saints machine chews up and spits out coaches. It probably isn't the best environment for a first time coach, so Lyon does read like the best option they have.

[Bornadog]

Re: LOL Aints

Ross Lyon now official

[GVGjr]

Re: LOL Aints

I don't doubt that he is an excellent coach but he shat all over them years ago using a loophole to move to Fremantle even bypassing his own management and now the Saints have rolled out the red carpet for him and in the process shat on Brett Ratten by short changing him on his payout.

I just heard that Robery Harvey is returning as the senior assistant. At least the Saints are getting their ducks in a row.