LOL Aints

[Sedat]

Re: LOL Aints

I've got the marshmallows roasting and the popcorn out for this, another inevitable disaster at the perennial self destroyers : the Aints.

If I had a bet with Vegas and had to choose between Ross the Boss as coach or Lethers as CEO, it would take me a nanosecond to choose Ross

[MrMahatma]

Re: LOL Aints

In principle, I agree with Ross. Footy dept do footy stuff, and CEO can do CEO stuff.

[Grantysghost]

Re: LOL Aints

If I had a bet with Vegas and had to choose between Ross the Boss as coach or Lethers as CEO, it would take me a nanosecond to choose Ross

I've still got the popcorn out.

[azabob]

Re: LOL Aints

Honestly, no one can be surprised as this is Ross Lyon's M.O.

I wonder how long it will take to unravel this time?

[Sedat]

Re: LOL Aints

Honestly, no one can be surprised as this is Ross Lyon's M.O.

I wonder how long it will take to unravel this time?

If Ross' previous history is any indication, he will get perilously close to a premiership either this year or next year. He got St Kilda as close as humanly possible 2 years in a row (in his 2nd and 3rd year in charge), and he got Freo into a GF early in his tenure there as well. On the flipside, the wheels do fall off rather quickly - his style is intense and fatigue can set in quicker than with other coaches.

He is an abrasive personality but he can seriously coach. It might unravel but I would take that chance if I was Bassat. They were just treading water and not really going anywhere under Ratten (as unfair as his treatment was).

[GVGjr]

Re: LOL Aints

If Ross' previous history is any indication, he will get perilously close to a premiership either this year or next year. He got St Kilda as close as humanly possible 2 years in a row (in his 2nd and 3rd year in charge), and he got Freo into a GF early in his tenure there as well. On the flipside, the wheels do fall off rather quickly - his style is intense and fatigue can set in quicker than with other coaches.

He is an abrasive personality but he can seriously coach. It might unravel but I would take that chance if I was Bassat. They were just treading water and not really going anywhere under Ratten (as unfair as his treatment was).

He's definitely an excellent coach who know what he wants and surrounds himself with the types that are also hungry for success.
You have to wonder if this all encompassing role of being basically the senior coach and the footy department GM is the right way to go but if anyone was going to make it work it will be him.

The Saints previously gave Grant Thomas almost total control so would probably be comfortable with this set-up under Ross.

[mjp]

Re: LOL Aints

If Ross' previous history is any indication, he will get perilously close to a premiership either this year or next year. He got St Kilda as close as humanly possible 2 years in a row (in his 2nd and 3rd year in charge), and he got Freo into a GF early in his tenure there as well. On the flipside, the wheels do fall off rather quickly - his style is intense and fatigue can set in quicker than with other coaches.

1/. Not sure the wheels really fell off at the Saints. He jumped ship.
2/. Pretty sure Freo finished on top of the ladder in 2015 and the wheels kind of fell off SLOWLY over the following 4-years...it's more the "FAILURE" in finals he gets criticised for and "lack of development" opportunities for young players...he is a my way or the highway coach and if you can't fit into the side and execute the 'basics' (of your assigned role as WELL as the game) then he doesn't have a lot of time for you...players at Freo will tell you Ross in 2018 was almost unrecognisable from the 2013 version.

2013 Ross: Players sat out the front of their team-mates during match review 'explaining' their actions.
2018 Ross: Coaches offering support to players and leaning on development coaches

The problem is (of course), which version of Ross was more successful (on-field).

[Grantysghost]

Re: LOL Aints

If Ross' previous history is any indication, he will get perilously close to a premiership either this year or next year. He got St Kilda as close as humanly possible 2 years in a row (in his 2nd and 3rd year in charge), and he got Freo into a GF early in his tenure there as well. On the flipside, the wheels do fall off rather quickly - his style is intense and fatigue can set in quicker than with other coaches.

He is an abrasive personality but he can seriously coach. It might unravel but I would take that chance if I was Bassat. They were just treading water and not really going anywhere under Ratten (as unfair as his treatment was).

That Saints side was pretty good, you can argue soundly that they should have won one.

I don't get the Ross love but I'll watch with interest.

[Sedat]

Re: LOL Aints

1/. Not sure the wheels really fell off at the Saints. He jumped ship.
2/. Pretty sure Freo finished on top of the ladder in 2015 and the wheels kind of fell off SLOWLY over the following 4-years...it's more the "FAILURE" in finals he gets criticised for and "lack of development" opportunities for young players...he is a my way or the highway coach and if you can't fit into the side and execute the 'basics' (of your assigned role as WELL as the game) then he doesn't have a lot of time for you...players at Freo will tell you Ross in 2018 was almost unrecognisable from the 2013 version.

2013 Ross: Players sat out the front of their team-mates during match review 'explaining' their actions.
2018 Ross: Coaches offering support to players and leaning on development coaches

The problem is (of course), which version of Ross was more successful (on-field).

Fair call. Wheels falling off is clearly too harsh a description.

I rate Lyon massively as a coach - I'm spewing the Saints got him to be honest as they were just going to continue treading water under Ratten. I reckon he performed minor miracles with St Kilda last year - they did not have a "top 8" list - and I expect them to be thereabouts again this year. It would not surprise me to see them improve again and challenge the top 4.

He cops a lot because he's never won a flag and his game style is not the most aesthetically pleasing. But honestly he couldn't have done much more to get one in his previous 2 stints, and he still has the hunger and knowledge to give it another shake. I cant see an implosion any time soon.

[jeemak]

Re: LOL Aints

The "getting the band back together" for a shot at glory bit is what would concern me if I was a Saints supporter.

Are Ross's men really the best out there, or are they just acolytes he knows he can control?

[GVGjr]

Re: LOL Aints

Following the departure of CEO Simon Lethlean at St Kilda, does Ross Lyon have too much power at Moorabbin?

Kane Cornes has pondered the question, given the revelation that Lethlean had next to nothing to do with the football department following Lyon’s appointment.

Sam Edmund explained how it all played out and the reaction from other chiefs around the AFL.

“What is fact is the outgoing CEO Simon Lethlean was having less and less and less to do with the football department all the time,” Edmund told SEN Breakfast.

“The role had changed massively from when he signed on. Now, they didn’t have a bad relationship because they didn’t have a relationship at all. This is between the CEO and the coach.

“I canvassed the opinion of a few CEOs in the industry to see if this is unusual and they said you just cannot do your job as a CEO if you don’t have eyes on the football department.”

Cornes wonders whether any coach in the AFL has as much sway as Lyon and whether anyone internally will challenge him across the season.

“Is he the most powerful coach that we’ve got right now in terms of influence at his own club? I can’t think of another one since Alastair Clarkson at Hawthorn,” Cornes told SEN Breakfast.

“He’s coach, he’s footy manager, he’s fitness – that’s what it seems like to me. Or if he’s not happy with those areas, he will get what he wants so that he is happy with it.

“Is it risky when one person has so much say over the football program and who challenges Ross at the Saints?

“It’s a really unique situation. Brendon Goddard, Robert Harvey, Lenny Hayes, Dave Misson, they’re saying Carl Dilena will be the next CEO but won’t have much to do with the football department like Lethlean and then you’ve got Graeme Allen and Stephen Silvagni doing their own thing in terms of building the list without the input of the coach.

“I think I would be too scared to challenge Ross Lyon to the point where you might get him offside and then bang you’re gone.

“Don’t you need, in a high-performing environment, where you’ve got game plan, you’ve got issues in game, in the moment, you’ve got to challenge each other.

“And maybe I’m not giving Ross enough credit and maybe he welcomes challenge and he welcomes ideas and in the end like all good coaches he absorbs all the information and makes the call and he’s the one with final say, which is the way it should work.

“But around the club, I think you need a strong CEO who does know football and is willing to challenge the coach.

“You certainly need a strong head of football who is willing to do that as well and the coach has got to report to both of those. It feels like it’s Alastair Clarkson, it’s Bill Belichick in the NFL … but the Saints don’t have Luke Hodge and Lance Franklin and Jarryd Roughead.

“If it works, I think it’ll work for a short period. Whether it’s good enough to get you to a premiership, I think it’s a short window. I’m not sure you can have a Damien Hardwick 13-year run with this setup because it’s going to become tiresome.”

St Kilda will host Essendon at RSEA Park in their first pre-season scrimmage on February 23 before taking on North Melbourne the following week.

[Sedat]

Re: LOL Aints

The "getting the band back together" for a shot at glory bit is what would concern me if I was a Saints supporter.

Are Ross's men really the best out there, or are they just acolytes he knows he can control?

What have they got to lose? They've won stuff-all in the last nearly 60 years, may as well go all chips in with a coaching group that got them as close as anyone. In the last decade they've tried rookie coaches and coaches from external successful environments, and all have been a disaster (Watters, Richardson, Ratten). Lyon has all these guys covered by the length of the Flemington Straight.

[GVGjr]

Re: LOL Aints

What have they got to lose? They've won stuff-all in the last nearly 60 years, may as well go all chips in with a coaching group that got them as close as anyone. In the last decade they've tried rookie coaches and coaches from external successful environments, and all have been a disaster (Watters, Richardson, Ratten). Lyon has all these guys covered by the length of the Flemington Straight.

There is no question he is a brilliant coach but you have to wonder if this new set-up is the right thing? We can probably all understand why they've done it though given the long list of coaches who haven't measured up but it is still a bold move.
He's got a lot of loyal support around him and I wonder if that gets tested if the results don't flow on.

[Grantysghost]

Re: LOL Aints

There is no question he is a brilliant coach but you have to wonder if this new set-up is the right thing? We can probably all understand why they've done it though given the long list of coaches who haven't measured up but it is still a bold move.
He's got a lot of loyal support around him and I wonder if that gets tested if the results don't flow on.

It feels like a very old school approach. This is my question with Ross. He has been very good, especially at Fremantle, however anyone that's managed staff over the last 10 years knows only too well that you can't use that old school approach with 20 year olds now.

To me it feels it's his way or the highway, and it's already showing me that he won't be any different this time around.

I'd be very surprised if he can change enough to get them close again. Plus that list is very very average.

He doesn't have Hayes, Montagna, Reiwoldt, Dal Santo, Goddard, Koschitzke, Milne, Fisher. That was a generational side.

@sedat you're right they've got nothing to lose. Watters was a train wreck, had a mate coach at Sandy during his tenure. Not good.
However if you look at recent flag coaches, they aren't recycled.

[Bornadog]

Re: LOL Aints

It feels like a very old school approach. This is my question with Ross. He has been very good, especially at Fremantle, however anyone that's managed staff over the last 10 years knows only too well that you can't use that old school approach with 20 year olds now.

To me it feels it's his way or the highway, and it's already showing me that he won't be any different this time around.

I'd be very surprised if he can change enough to get them close again. Plus that list is very very average.

He doesn't have Hayes, Montagna, Reiwoldt, Dal Santo, Goddard, Koschitzke, Milne, Fisher. That was a generational side.

@sedat you're right they've got nothing to lose. Watters was a train wreck, had a mate coach at Sandy during his tenure. Not good.
However if you look at recent flag coaches, they aren't recycled.

GG you have nailed it. Ross is part of the old brigade and footy has changed as have 20 year olds and the way you handle them. I know he is not as old as Chris Fagan (close), but seems from the outside Chris is different and may rely on his assistants to handle the younger players. I can't imagine Ross delegates alot, but I could be wrong.

No way I would want him and the Dogs.